POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

It's easy for you and I, the privileged, white, and college-educated, to say that they didn't think too critically about it. If we were black, and the centrist, corporate Dems like Clinton, Bloomberg, Lieberman, Durbin, Pelosi, etc. clearly hadn't done much to lift our prospects in the ~40 years since the parties switched positions on race, perhaps we'd be throwing caution into the wind for once, too.

Don't forget, Bill supported "Three strikes", and other such laws.

Agree and disagree at the same time.

The Dems have done lots for the underprivileged and minorities. The top of the D hierarchy set the environment/framework and the local parties have often got it done. But I agree that the perceptions and often outcomes have not borne that out. There are too many structural advantages for the rich and as said, the GOP has either pushed in the other direction or sabotage. Regardless, the Dems have tried and frequently been successful in launching the right policies.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

I think this can be a cop-out too though. I am a straight, white, middle class and middle aged male. I can't begin to understand what it feels like to be discriminated against by a cop who pulls me over for DWB, or to be followed around in a mall because it's assumed I'm going to steal something, or for a large portion of society to find me repulsive because I am attracted to the "wrong" gender. But that doesn't mean I don't know all of those things are wrong and since I may be in a position of privilege I need to work to end those things. The democrats tend to say the right things on these and similar issues, and for the most part they act on them far more often than republicans. There is no question as to which party has done nothing to earn the votes of minorities of all kinds in this country and which party has at least tried to do something. If that isn't readily apparent in 2016 we are NEVER going to get this right.

Well said.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TRUMP: "We are looking at putting in a very major tax cut for middle-income people. And if we do that it'll be sometime just prior to November. We are studying very deeply right now round the clock a major tax cut for middle income people."<br><br>(There are 11 days until November!) <a href="https://t.co/imbnUKWU7P">pic.twitter.com/imbnUKWU7P</a></p>— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) <a href="https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1053742736053014540?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the caravan is a lead-up to some Halloween-night "War of the Worlds"-esque broadcast on Fox News.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

I actually listened to the entire thing just now. It was interesting to listen to but as usual it was all platitudes and no solutions. Every horrifying thing they brought up that is happening in the United States is true and they both had excellent points to make. But, who cares? People want solutions. People want guard rails. There are none right now. And maybe that's the great underlying reality of today's America. All the noise is the solution. Too many people make too much money off the noise. Instead of solving problems were just here to perpetually argue about them and that argument is the industry that cannot be silenced.

Sad.

I'd actually like to see us get things done again.

I took a flyer and watched it too. It was worth watching, I thought.

I don't think your demand for solutions is unreasonable, but solutions are, generally speaking, the easiest part of the equation. First we need to have a well defined problem and that comes from open and honest debate between those with differing points of view as to what the problem actually is. For example suppose you said everything Cenk says, and I said everything Tucker said, on the subject of immigration, we both would have made very different but still salient points. But, if rather than addressing all those points in our effort to better define the problem, I simply conclude that you're just a globalist commie and you likewise conclude I'm just a racist nazi, the actual problems with the issue will remain poorly defined, thereby rendering a good solution impossible.

This does remind me of how I do lament the loss of real public intellectuals as I think they did move us a good ways along the path of better defining problems as a country. As it stands, the ones we do have, or could have, I guess, are largely relegated to one third of a 90-second-spot in split-screen on various network shows. Doesn't really work, doesn't make us think, and it's much too easy to simply dismiss any idea outside our original comfort zone.

 

[aparch]

<snip>

It's his "two weeks" promise. Every pipe dream promise never to be fulfilled is always "two weeks" away. Daniel Dale pointed that out over a year ago on Twitter, and frequently reminds people of it when he promises things at his rallies.


Also, a middle-class tax cut is a cheap ploy to get votes that has real consequences when budgets cannot be balanced. I know, I know, I've played too much SimCity as a kid and have an unrealistic expectation of my tax money being used for good.

 

[Handyman]

I think this can be a cop-out too though. I am a straight, white, middle class and middle aged male. I can't begin to understand what it feels like to be discriminated against by a cop who pulls me over for DWB, or to be followed around in a mall because it's assumed I'm going to steal something, or for a large portion of society to find me repulsive because I am attracted to the "wrong" gender. But that doesn't mean I don't know all of those things are wrong and since I may be in a position of privilege I need to work to end those things. The democrats tend to say the right things on these and similar issues, and for the most part they act on them far more often than republicans. There is no question as to which party has done nothing to earn the votes of minorities of all kinds in this country and which party has at least tried to do something. If that isn't readily apparent in 2016 we are NEVER going to get this right.

It's not about whether you know it is wrong...it is whether they think you are going to do anything to stop it.

It isn't like racism disappeared when the Dems controlled everything.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Wow, this was actually a pretty good debate, and at least echoed to me a lot of what has previously happened here until things devolved into echo chamber in-fighting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH-q9FcRcQ8

Tucker Carlson vs. Cenk Uygur.

Yeah. Pretty good.

As is often the case, Tucker would take a fear based position. Uygur would address it with a bevy of facts...and Tucker would retreat to a completely different point. Rinse, repeat. Tucker: the caravan wants invade this country. Uygur: they're just looking for asylum...perfectly legal...the GOP doesn't even want to listen. Tucker: many countries have people that want in this country. Uygur: immigrants have made/grown this country...here's a dozen facts backing the point...others damage this country. Tucker: I can't debate that...so let me go somewhere else.

Edit: interesting in the sense, Tucker pins the mass danger to society is coming from the technology sector. A lot of what he's afraid of is tech bringing change and the potential of the power of being smart and using it against people.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

It's not about whether you know it is wrong...it is whether they think you are going to do anything to stop it.

It isn't like racism disappeared when the Dems controlled everything.

Racism and bigotry will never disappear. Doesn't matter who is elected, or what system of government we have. It will never, ever end as long as there are human beings roaming the Earth. But what DOES change is the law. From the 20th century onward one of our two major parties has helped enact laws that expand rights and protect those who had their rights denied. One party, not so much and now actively opposes almost anything that would help preserve those liberties. We already see voter purges based in part on simple mistakes in the spelling of someone's name, and since people of color more often have names spelled in less common ways, they're getting purged. That's republican policy and not the democrats. We have two probable choices in almost every single election. One is clearly better than the other. If any of us need to fall madly in love with our candidates and have them support even 90% of our agendas, we're screwed. I'm truly troubled by and sorry that so much bigotry exists in America. But if people choose to NOT vote for the democrats because they haven't managed to end racism, they're much more part of the problem than the solution.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the caravan is a lead-up to some Halloween-night "War of the Worlds"-esque broadcast on Fox News.

The latest theory - Soros and the Dems are funding it, and it's a trap to encourage Trump to engage the military with "shoot to kill" orders.

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

The latest theory - Soros and the Dems are funding it, and it's a trap to encourage Trump to engage the military with "shoot to kill" orders.

It's the perfect trap! The only way out would be to not shoot and instead just process the asylum requests like we've been doing for years and years.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

The latest theory - Soros and the Dems are funding it, and it's a trap to encourage Trump to engage the military with "shoot to kill" orders.

I was at the mechanic and he was listening to Rush...he basically said the caravans are an invasion force and if hey arent stopped Trump wont survive it politically or some such nonsense.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

I was at the mechanic and he was listening to Rush...he basically said the caravans are an invasion force and if hey arent stopped Trump wont survive it politically or some such nonsense.

rotflmao

 

[JF_Gophers]

I was at the mechanic and he was listening to Rush...he basically said the caravans are an invasion force and if hey arent stopped Trump wont survive it politically or some such nonsense.

So we are rooting for the caravan then?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

So we are rooting for the caravan then?

I think unfortunately the caravan is a lose lose for Democrats. If locking kids in cages doesn't change the vote that much nothing will on immigration.

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

So we are rooting for the caravan then?

We are rooting for the same basic functioning of the immigration system as has been in place for quite some time now. The people in the caravan have a right to present their asylum case at a point of entry and have their case heard. Granted that doesn't have the same ring as "everyone gets in" or "shoot 'em all".

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

We are rooting for the same basic functioning of the immigration system as has been in place for quite some time now. The people in the caravan have a right to present their asylum case at a point of entry and have their case heard. Granted that doesn't have the same ring as "everyone gets in" or "shoot 'em all".

You won't even get 15% of Americans to understand that that is the law.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

I am rooting for the caravan if Rush is correct

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

You won't even get 15% of Americans to understand that that is the law.

Yeah I know. I should wish for my own unicorn while I'm at it.