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POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

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Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Brenthoven said:
I'm being very genuine. A vast majority of people take advantage of every tax break they can take. It doesn't matter party. The rich set the rules, like it or not. That's my point. It's not R/D/I. It's rich vs non-rich. That's the issue I have in this whole thing. Don't blame a party for the rules. Blame the rich for not making it happen.
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No, you said they could voluntarily pay extra. Because governments apparently run on charity in your delusional pipedream world.

And your latter argument is bull****. The Republicans cater to the rich by taking the Norquist pledge and enacting trickle down economics. The Democrats may not repeal that wholesale, but they sure as hell don't further it.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

unofan said:
No, you said they could voluntarily pay extra. Because governments apparently run on charity in your delusional pipedream world.

And your latter argument is bull****. The Republicans cater to the rich by taking the Norquist pledge and enacting trickle down economics. The Democrats may not repeal that wholesale, but they sure as hell don't further it.
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1. I did say that. And they could. Pretty sure someone like Gates or Buffett have some pull. ;)
2. I also have said the Rs are worse. The Ds are no saints, though, which started this whole thing with me. IT'S NOT A PARTY ISSUE. It's an income class issue.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Brenthoven said:
I'm being very genuine. A vast majority of people take advantage of every tax break they can take. It doesn't matter party. The rich set the rules, like it or not. That's my point. It's not R/D/I. It's rich vs non-rich. That's the issue I have in this whole thing. Don't blame a party for the rules. Blame the rich for not making it happen.
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The rich from one party are asking for the rules to be changed in a way that would harm them individually while helping those less fortunate, and the rich from the other party are trying to change the rules in ways that will further enrich them at the expense of those less fortunate.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

jerphisch said:
The rich from one party are asking for the rules to be changed in a way that would harm them individually while helping those less fortunate, and the rich from the other party are trying to change the rules in ways that will further enrich them at the expense of those less fortunate.
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And the rules still haven't changed, and the rich still take advantage of the current rules in place.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Ok, to use obvious people, if Gates and Buffett were to really show they are behind changing taxes, they wouldn't write off a single thing or take advantage of a single loophole. Not one. But they do, because it's smart business to use all the advantages they have. Is it fair? Nope. Is it right? Debatable. Is it legal? Right now, yes.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

jerphisch said:
The rich from one party are asking for the rules to be changed in a way that would harm them individually while helping those less fortunate, and the rich from the other party are trying to change the rules in ways that will further enrich them at the expense of those less fortunate.
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The central points here should not be ignored but were. What Small Joe Business Owner does is not the underlying issue.

Brent stop saying, "everyone takes advantage" when the point is one party is trying to reduce those advantages while the other is trying to expand them. Address that please in a straightforward manner.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Brenthoven said:
Ok, to use obvious people, if Gates and Buffett were to really show they are behind changing taxes, they wouldn't write off a single thing or take advantage of a single loophole. Not one. But they do, because it's smart business to use all the advantages they have. Is it fair? Nope. Is it right? Debatable. Is it legal? Right now, yes.
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I'll take on that point.

There are two good reasons why they don't. 1. Because one person doesn't move the needle. I take it that there's something you believe in super strongly (not sure what it is). But for that one thing...my question to you is...why don't you go stand on 94 at noon to protest it? What are you telling me its not that important? The point is...one person does not move the needle against Trump's 1Trillion deficit.

2. The way they can get policy to change as celebrities is to say...I'll pay more taxes if everyone in my class does. If they believe in having the rich (including themselves) pay higher taxes...how dumb would it be to just pay higher taxes all by yourself. Gates is ready and willing but he and his fellow counterparts are playing the only game that matter to them - have all really rich people pay and actually have an impact.

Not one or the other - both points are valid.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Slap Shot said:
The central points here should not be ignored but were. What Small Joe Business Owner does is not the underlying issue.

Brent stop saying, "everyone takes advantage" when the point is one party is trying to reduce those advantages while the other is trying to expand them. Address that please in a straightforward manner.
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The latter party is trying (cough cough) but are foiled by lobbies, special interests, people funding them. They are two-faced. The sad, sad, situation of the Rs is that they tell you that they are screwing the people, and the people take it. They just frame it in a way that make their followers believe it's for the greater good. The Ds want to change a few things, but don't be fooled: the rich will still keep their money. AGAIN, the rich win. AGAIN, that's my only issue that made this thing blow up. Scoobs only blamed Rs. He's only partially correct. Had he blamed rich? I'm on board.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

5mn_Major said:
I'll take on that point.

There are two good reasons why they don't. 1. Because one person doesn't move the needle. I take it that there's something you believe in super strongly (not sure what it is). But for that one thing...my question to you is...why don't you go stand on 94 at noon to protest it? What are you telling me its not that important? The point is...one person does not move the needle against Trump's 1Trillion deficit.

2. The way they can get policy to change as celebrities is to say...I'll pay more taxes if everyone in my class does. If they believe in having the rich (including themselves) pay higher taxes...how dumb would it be to just pay higher taxes all by yourself. Gates is ready and willing but he and his fellow counterparts are playing the only game that matter to them - have all really rich people pay and actually have an impact.

Not one or the other - both points are valid.
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Now we are getting to see each other's point of view. And many rich folk (doesn't matter what party) don't wanna to do that. So, here we are.

And what good would it for a single lower-middle class blue collar worker to protest (to use your paying by all point)? I'd be considered a nutcase, (to lighten the situation, it's probably true ;) ).
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Brenthoven said:
The Ds want to change a few things, but don't be fooled: the rich will still keep their money. AGAIN, the rich win. AGAIN, that's my only issue that made this thing blow up.
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This whole point comes down to the above incorrect statement. Motley Fool, a banker investment analyst (not political rag), chose 6 states that 'tax the daylights out of the rich'. But with your analysis, they must be somewhat politically balanced or something. Nope. They're 6 of the most democratic states there are:

CA
NJ
NY
OR
VT
MN

Your point is refuted and it could be refuted another dozen times with the facts.

https://www.fool.com/taxes/2018/08/18/6-states-that-tax-the-daylights-out-of-the-rich.aspx


Brenthoven said:
Now we are getting to see each other's point of view. And many rich folk (doesn't matter what party) don't wanna to do that. So, here we are.

And what good would it for a single lower-middle class blue collar worker to protest (to use your paying by all point)? I'd be considered a nutcase, (to lighten the situation, it's probably true ;) ).
Click to expand...

Your moving the goal posts. You were making claims just about Gates and Buffet, etc. and why they specifically don't just pay higher taxes on their own. I sincerely answered that question...and now your using it for a completely different point.

Edit: I'm really not trying to be a jerk, I just don't see your logic at all.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

I am actually surprised MN isn't higher. CA is king, which we all know.

And I am not moving the goalposts. We just have different points of view. I appreciate the fact we are talking and trying to find common ground. The alt-right and anti-fa have seem to have lost that.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Brenthoven said:
AGAIN, the rich win. AGAIN, that's my only issue that made this thing blow up. Scoobs only blamed Rs. He's only partially correct. Had he blamed rich? I'm on board.
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BOTH SIDES RICH people don't enact law and policy - Congress does. And rich D's in DC want to increase taxation of the 1% while the R's keep trying to reduce it. Again you're ignoring the facts.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Slap Shot said:
BOTH SIDES RICH people don't enact law and policy - Congress does. And rich D's in DC want to increase taxation of the 1% while the R's keep trying to reduce it. Again you're ignoring the facts.
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So make it happen. The R's haven't always been in complete control. And you're foolish if you don't think outside interests influence policy. You really are. This is no conspiracy theory, heck the Koch brothers have been (rightfully) targets for years for influencing decisions. It happens on the D side, too. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant and/or blind.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

If you really want to break it down to R and D, which is erroneous. The Rs are unabashedly proud of their middle finger to America. The Ds refuse to acknowledge that their leaders also contribute to this tax issue.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Brenthoven said:
So make it happen. The R's haven't always been in complete control. And you're foolish if you don't think outside interests influence policy. You really are. This is no conspiracy theory, heck the Koch brothers have been (rightfully) targets for years for influencing decisions. It happens on the D side, too. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant and/or blind.
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And while the Ds haven't made HUGE changes when in power, they have made changes in the right direction. You seem to be ignoring what has actually happened. Sure I'd rather see more, but I'll take a small step forward over a huge leap back any day.
 
Re: POTUS 45.41: We Need More Tax Cuts to pay for the Tax Cut

Brenthoven said:
If you really want to break it down to R and D, which is erroneous. The Rs are unabashedly proud of their middle finger to America. The Ds refuse to acknowledge that their leaders also contribute to this tax issue.
Click to expand...

Obama raised taxes on the rich. W cut them. Trump cut them. Tim Pawlenty cut them. Dayton raised them. The heist from middle America started with Reagan. It's been Republican policy since then. You fail to acknowledge any of that. And your big policy answer to all of it is the rich should just write a check if they want to pay more. People have written checks. Many have. The policy hasn't changed because of it and a few people writing checks are not going to pay the bills.

But, you go ahead and blame both parties equally if it makes you happy. You have a good political career ahead of you. All you need now is an Ayn Rand poster and you're set. Paul Ryan can hook you up.
 
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