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POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

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Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Brent has explicitly stated that it makes him sick on more than one occasion. Why some of you continue to ignore those statements, is beyond me.

First, I'm curious why people think I support this regime?

The very simple answer to these is that there is always a but. It makes me sick, but...

Nothing is being ignored. When you start qualifying the it makes me sick, well, does it really?
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Cheesehead Dumpies have a sad.

And who’s the No. 1 importer of Wisconsin cheese? The same country that is the No. 1 buyer of Iowa pork: Mexico. Donald Trump’s trade war is going to have a profound impact on American cheese, pork, and soybeans. Retaliatory tariffs from Mexico, Europe, and China will be hitting Trump country with precision. Nevertheless, despite it all, those farmers are still supporting Donald Trump.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

I have a lot of faith in our government institutions, and their ability to withstand even a clown like Trump.

Our institutions don't work automatically -- they don't "save" us; we have to save them.

When Dump attacks the free press that's an attack on all of us, left or right, who believe in democracy. It's an attack on an open society, civil liberties, and the rule of law.

I can't tell you to get excited about that, but I'm not sure what can get you excited if that doesn't bother you. Maybe one of my guys doing it will. Because if Dump keeps going like this he's destroying our system for everyone, and the next guy who walks through that door onto the ruins might be Kepler on Steroids.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Our institutions don't work automatically -- they don't "save" us; we have to save them.

When Dump attacks the free press that's an attack on all of us, left or right, who believe in democracy. It's an attack on an open society, civil liberties, and the rule of law.

I can't tell you to get excited about that, but I'm not sure what can get you excited if that doesn't bother you. Maybe one of my guys doing it will. Because if Dump keeps going like this he's destroying our system for everyone, and the next guy who walks through that door onto the ruins might be Kepler on Steroids.
Again, here is where I view it slightly differently than you. I personally believe that Trump's "attacks" on the press have been at least marginally beneficial to our country. I'll acknowledge that there exists a percentage of our populace that takes him at his word that the press can't be trusted. But even more importantly I think his attacks have revitalized a press that honestly had grown a little stagnant and spoonfed.

I don't think he can effectively attack the press. He calls them names. He threatens them. Yeah, he may pick and choose who gets to come to one of his meetings, but he isn't hindering the press in the least.

If he tried to pass legislation or issued an executive order that limited press freedoms in the country, I'd be at the head of the line protesting. But all he has really done is pick a war of words with people who buy ink by the barrel.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

The very simple answer to these is that there is always a but. It makes me sick, but...

Nothing is being ignored. When you start qualifying the it makes me sick, well, does it really?

What exactly has my "but" been?

With respect to the incarceration of the children and their families, I stated my opposition. I did add a "but" that indicated I was opposed to all limitations on immigration into this country. Is that the "but" that causes you to think I've fallen in line with Trump?

My opposition was stated simply and clearly. I think incarcerating and separating these people is wrong. Most of you think that because I didn't write it, "OMG!! F##K TRUMP!! F$$K PENCE!!! WHAT ABOUT THE BABIES?!?!?!?! KILL ALL THE NAZI'S!!#!##!#!" that I didn't sufficiently oppose it.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

What exactly has my "but" been?

A sampling...

SJHovey said:
But I waded into this s h ! t show of a thread that you've created to say that I agree with the NYT. That throwing gasoline on the fire by tossing terms like "nazi" and "concentration camp" around like they are wooden nickels is not going to solve problems, and in fact it is going to make it more difficult to solve them. Trump screams like a lunatic. Screaming like a lunatic back at him is not the solution.

There is a lot of bad bs going on this country, and many things we need to change. But that kind of talk is not persuading me that I need to join your camp.

But you know as well as I do that the term "concentration camp" evokes a very specific reaction since World War II, and that's why people are using that term. It's used for the same reason that the term nazi is used.

That said, I'm curious what you and others think should be done with these kids under the law as it currently exists.
1. Incarcerate them with their parents and a whole lot of additional unrelated adults until they can be returned home?
2. Left to roam the streets until their parents are processed and ready to be returned home?
3. Placed in thousands of yet to be identified foster homes?
4. Placed in one of tens of thousand of individual holding cells built just for families (that have yet to be constructed)?
5. Have someone just literally walk them back across the border?
6. Some other great idea that you have?

I blame every single one of you who don’t agree with my position that the US borders should be open to whoever wants to come here.

So to summarize, it's mostly some form of "but your whining is even worse than locking kids up." With a side of "but what else could be done." And a little "but really it's your fault" for dessert.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Again, here is where I view it slightly differently than you. I personally believe that Trump's "attacks" on the press have been at least marginally beneficial to our country. I'll acknowledge that there exists a percentage of our populace that takes him at his word that the press can't be trusted. But even more importantly I think his attacks have revitalized a press that honestly had grown a little stagnant and spoonfed.

100% Disagree. Not really sure how you could even reach that conclusion.

First, the press on all fronts if anything becomes more political and petty rather than less. He's trolling and if anything, they're taking the bait - and the quality of reporting suffers. When they reply, he takes the bait - rinse, repeat. Every other president has treated that as their responsibility - which it needs to be due to free press.

Second, your completing ignoring the impact on the third of Americans who gives him undue credit. That group hears the media is wrong at its core and believes it. For them then, it doesn't matter what's said by those outlets. Ultimately, whatever Trump says becomes Gospel.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Again, here is where I view it slightly differently than you. I personally believe that Trump's "attacks" on the press have been at least marginally beneficial to our country. I'll acknowledge that there exists a percentage of our populace that takes him at his word that the press can't be trusted. But even more importantly I think his attacks have revitalized a press that honestly had grown a little stagnant and spoonfed.

I don't think he can effectively attack the press. He calls them names. He threatens them. Yeah, he may pick and choose who gets to come to one of his meetings, but he isn't hindering the press in the least.

If he tried to pass legislation or issued an executive order that limited press freedoms in the country, I'd be at the head of the line protesting. But all he has really done is pick a war of words with people who buy ink by the barrel.

There may be some truth to that, hovey, but here's my concern. Trump was chosen by one of our two major political parties to represent its interests in the campaign, and he won. Despite the fact that he lies openly and constantly and foments, intentionally or not, the growth of right wing hate groups, he continues to have the support of nearly every major player in his party. I heard the results of a study today (on NPR) that of the people who voted for him in either a primary or the general, well over 90% would vote for him again. Liberals are often castigated for failing to understand Trump voters and why they voted for him, and they are warned that until they do, they will continue to lose elections.

Well, it may be that Trump has no policy objectives, only impulses, and that he only serves his own ego. But he has shown from the start a plan to create in the American public a belief that the news we receive through all but a few sources is fake and cannot be believed. He has been methodical about that. You say this is harmless and that it may even be having a revitalizing effect on the press. But it appears, at least, that this distrust is shared by those who continue to support him--those same people liberals seem unable to understand. Even assuming that the press is being revitalized (and I disagree with that), what good is a revitalized press if the public refuses to to believe what it publishes? If that happens, then Justice Holmes' famous words that "the best test of truth is the power of thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market" is just more fake news.

I don't know--something like that.
 
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Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

A sampling...



So to summarize, it's mostly some form of "but your whining is even worse than locking kids up." With a side of "but what else could be done." And a little "but really it's your fault" for dessert.

Oh, nonsense. I wasn't comparing your whining to locking kids up. Your whining just sucks, whether you're whining about this or anything else.

I think my questions were legitimate ones. I know my answer. My answer is we shouldn't be stopping them at all, we should just be letting them in. But I had, and have, a genuine curiosity about what you think we should do with people we capture if you don't want to let them all in. I never did get an answer to my question, by the way.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

There may be some truth to that, hovey, but here's my concern. Trump was chosen by one of our two major political parties to represent its interests in the campaign, and he won. Despite the fact that he lies openly and constantly and foments, intentionally or not, the growth of right wing hate groups, he continues to have the support of nearly every major player in his party. I heard the results of a study today (on NPR) that of the people who voted for him in either a primary or the general, well over 90% would vote for him again. Liberals are often castigated for failing to understand Trump voters and why they voted for him, and they are warned that until they do, they will continue to lose elections.

Well, it may be that Trump has no policy objectives, only impulses, and that he only serves his own ego. But he has shown from the start a plan to create in the American public a belief that the news we receive through all but a few sources is fake and cannot be believed. He has been methodical about that. You say this is harmless and that it may even be having a revitalizing effect on the press. But it appears, at least, that this distrust is shared by those who continue to support him--those same people liberals seem unable to understand. Even assuming that the press is being revitalized (and I disagree with that), what good is a revitalized press if the public refuses to to believe what it publishes? If that happens, then Justice Holmes' famous words that "the best test of truth is the power of thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market" is just more fake news.

I don't know--something like that.

I don't know that I said Trump's attacks on the media were harmless. At least that wasn't my intent. What I said was that they have been marginally beneficial. What I intended by that, although I could have admittedly written it better, is that the net effect has been beneficial. While certain people have been persuaded to not believe what they read, having a more active, a more angry and frankly a much more energized news media has produced a larger benefit.

I saw or read something a few weeks ago, and I'm not sure I can put my hands on it at this point, about the number of eyeballs that are hitting on things like the NYT or WPo websites, and how since the election of Trump traffic has increased dramatically. I think that is good. It can't hurt people to read news, even if they are inclined to not believe it. I'd rather have them reading it and not believing it than not reading it at all. I have a faith, be it misguided or not, that sooner or later telling people the truth sinks in.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Oh, nonsense. I wasn't comparing your whining to locking kids up. Your whining just sucks, whether you're whining about this or anything else.

.

But your whining is awesome.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

I don't know that I said Trump's attacks on the media were harmless. At least that wasn't my intent. What I said was that they have been marginally beneficial. What I intended by that, although I could have admittedly written it better, is that the net effect has been beneficial. While certain people have been persuaded to not believe what they read, having a more active, a more angry and frankly a much more energized news media has produced a larger benefit.

I saw or read something a few weeks ago, and I'm not sure I can put my hands on it at this point, about the number of eyeballs that are hitting on things like the NYT or WPo websites, and how since the election of Trump traffic has increased dramatically. I think that is good. It can't hurt people to read news, even if they are inclined to not believe it. I'd rather have them reading it and not believing it than not reading it at all. I have a faith, be it misguided or not, that sooner or later telling people the truth sinks in.

You're right: you didn't.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying


It is what I have been saying for months. People applaud them because they point out the evil yet they give the evil a pulpit. You are part of the problem not helping the solution. You are no better than the GOPers who are out of a job in November who criticize Trump but still vote with him.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

If he tried to pass legislation or issued an executive order that limited press freedoms in the country, I'd be at the head of the line protesting. But all he has really done is pick a war of words with people who buy ink by the barrel.

The President making statements like he has is implicitly threatening our freedom.

Here's what the POS did just today.

This guy isn't cute or harmless, he's a f-cking disgrace and a threat to our country. Every one of us should be clamoring for his removal. His party doesn't matter at all. He's a menace.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Again, here is where I view it slightly differently than you. I personally believe that Trump's "attacks" on the press have been at least marginally beneficial to our country.

I can't come to the same conclusion. I don't see the logic of it either.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

The President making statements like he has is implicitly threatening our freedom.

Here's what the POS did just today.

This guy isn't cute or harmless, he's a f-cking disgrace and a threat to our country. Every one of us should be clamoring for his removal. His party doesn't matter at all. He's a menace.

jfc.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

The President making statements like he has is implicitly threatening our freedom.

Here's what the POS did just today.

This guy isn't cute or harmless, he's a f-cking disgrace and a threat to our country. Every one of us should be clamoring for his removal. His party doesn't matter at all. He's a menace.

Kep, when Dr. Mrs. retires, you have to convince her to post her thoughts here now and then. We won't expect hockey talk, and we won't get clingy.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Oh, nonsense. I wasn't comparing your whining to locking kids up. Your whining just sucks, whether you're whining about this or anything else.

I think my questions were legitimate ones. I know my answer. My answer is we shouldn't be stopping them at all, we should just be letting them in. But I had, and have, a genuine curiosity about what you think we should do with people we capture if you don't want to let them all in. I never did get an answer to my question, by the way.

I answered.
 
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