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POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

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Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

I support NAFTA and the TPP. Clinton got worked on that one and stupidly changed her mind. Why do I support them? Because the alternative is worse. And Dump is proving that every minute.

Iowa is going to get boned by China on Soybeans. And I'm going to relish every minute of it.

As are we. Ask the Canadian steel mills where they get a goodly sum of their iron ore, and it's not from their north. Then they ship that steel back down to us for final consumption. NPR was running a story during my drive to the transit station today where Plattsburgh, NY, is expecting to get pounded on this whole thing because when NAFTA was the expectation, that city had some 15% of its population working for companies that would ship resources to towns just across the border, then they'd receive a partially finished product in return, and it was like a carousel until the final product was out the door. Trade wars hurt everyone, especially those people they're designed to help.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour


*That* is what you are so concerned about?

joe, what church do you go to, I need to know to avoid that one. Given that you seem to approve of taking kids from their parents. Most people who have any morals would be pretty darned upset about it, but you are more concerned about the group doing the detention and splitting up. You are a sad man.
 
Same here. Sanders had won we wouldn't be blasting the guy up until 2 weeks before the election. Considering the alternative I would have voted for the man with a smile on my face and not an ounce of regret over the choice before me. Fuk I would have done the same for O'Malley if he'd won the nomination. When the other side nominates a Nazi, that's not the time to equivocate.

If you guys know this is going to happen, that part of the left will always abandon candidates like Gore and Clinton, then why do you vote for them? It's like putting faith in Marvin Lewis every year to get a Bengals playoff win.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

There wasn't a separation of families.

There were kids in cages, which is what I responded to. Rover doesn't nor didn't care about that and only cares that his team lost because he spent months talking about Hillary's amazing competence and strategy.

How do you have kids in cages and not have families being separated?

Under Obama, the lower tolerance policy meant that families got let through together, but with bounds on being found later.

One should note, that both times that a policy that was put into place to turn people around quickly- neither were effective at all. Neither took kids from their families, either.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour


So because President Obama suggested that we house people they wanted to send back, that somehow justifies taking families apart?

Honestly- is that how it works? Obama and Bush wanted to turn people back around and send them home, not take their kids from them. Neither action had an effect on illegal immigration, so dumpy decides to take kids as a way to stop it. Great idea. And lets be perfectly clear here- he and jeffy both have said that the point was to deter further immigration. Taking kids from their parents. duh.

edit- when this story gets to print after enough people listen, you, too can read the details- https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/621578860/how-prior-zero-tolerance-policies-at-the-border-worked

Not the same as what dumpy is doing. Not at all.
 
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Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

How do you have kids in cages and not have families being separated?

Under Obama, the lower tolerance policy meant that families got let through together, but with bounds on being found later.

One should note, that both times that a policy that was put into place to turn people around quickly- neither were effective at all. Neither took kids from their families, either.
They were unaccompanied children who were put in cages until they could find a family member to place them with, is my understanding. Either way, that wasn't really the point of that argument.
http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

So because President Obama suggested that we house people they wanted to send back, that somehow justifies taking families apart?
Of course not, I'd like us to have a much more progressive policy on this.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

As are we. Ask the Canadian steel mills where they get a goodly sum of their iron ore, and it's not from their north. Then they ship that steel back down to us for final consumption. NPR was running a story during my drive to the transit station today where Plattsburgh, NY, is expecting to get pounded on this whole thing because when NAFTA was the expectation, that city had some 15% of its population working for companies that would ship resources to towns just across the border, then they'd receive a partially finished product in return, and it was like a carousel until the final product was out the door. Trade wars hurt everyone, especially those people they're designed to help.

Oh, well. Trump won't lose any support and we'll bone our entire economy. It's a great plan. So much better than NAFTA and TPP.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I truly believe arguing & trying to convince people is not going to work. If they can see pictures of children in cages and justify it, in any way, they are gone. It is a waste of time and energy. We have to mobilize and motivate the other people, those who are rightly horrified.</p>— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) <a href="https://twitter.com/kumailn/status/1008785416445726722?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

There is a point where you have to give up on some as lost. They are a pit. You can fall in and waste all your energy and be no use to anyone. Or you can skirt round them and go on to the next person who still has a chance.

One third of this country is a pit. By mobilizing the other two thirds, we make them irrelevant and then move on.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

Food for thought for Drew:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jan/23/donald-trump/does-immigration-policy-impose-300-billion-annuall/

The National Academies found that first-generation immigrants (who were born outside of the United States) cost governments more money than the native-born population. The costs are largely taken on by state and local governments that educate the immigrants’ children.

But members of the second generation "are among the strongest economic and fiscal contributors in the U.S. population," the report said, with tax contributions greater than their parents and the native-born population.

The government runs on a deficit, so on average, taxpayers, including the native-born, benefit more than they pay in taxes. While members of the first, second, and third generations on average all cost more than they pay, we are all pushing a substantial amount of debt onto future generations — and immigrants and their descendants will also be "on the hook" for that debt.

Some costs won’t go away even if immigrants do. If all of the first-generation immigrants suddenly left the country, the government wouldn’t immediately have its expense burden reduced by $279 billion. Calculations in the study included defense costs and interest on the existing public debt, which would not go down without the 55.5 million immigrants. If those costs were excluded, the total fiscal burden for the first generation and dependents would go down to $43 billion, and the per capita burden would be more for the native-born population than for the first-generation immigrants.

The overall effect of immigration on economic growth was positive. Whatever costs immigrants might present now will be "paid back" by overall economic growth that will lead to more tax revenue on average for the government and less demand for need-based benefit programs. "The $279 billion calculation does not include any estimate of this effect and so is an upper bound on total fiscal impact," Donehower said.

The $279 billion impact stems from the combination of worst-case assumptions, he said. Under other assumptions, the fiscal burden was $43 billion.

The study also said the historical record suggests that the total net fiscal impact of immigrants across all levels of government has become more positive over time.

"The evidence does not suggest that current immigrant flows cost native-born taxpayers money over the long-run nor does it provide support for the notion that lowering immigration quotas or stepping up enforcement of existing immigration laws would generate savings to existing taxpayers," said a post on Econofact co-authored by Donehower and Francine Blau, an economics professor at Cornell University who chaired the panel that released the report.

The claim from the White House shows "a pretty misleading reading of the study," said Margaret Peters, an assistant professor of political science at the University of California-Los Angeles.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

More to chew on:

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/seven-myths-that-cloud-immigration-debate/ (I didn't quote all)

Myth No. 1 — Illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes. They actually pay a variety of taxes. Because many undocumented workers hold jobs, a large number pay income, Social Security and Medicare taxes, as well as sales taxes when they purchase items in stores and property taxes when they rent or own homes. One study found that they pay $162 billion annually in federal, state and local taxes. Another project found that the average immigrant paid $1,800 more in taxes than government benefits received.

Myth No. 2 — The United States rarely deports illegal immigrants. In fact, the government deports 350,000 people annually. Since 1999, more than 2.2 million people have been deported from the United States, including visitors who overstayed their visas, lied on immigration forms, or committed serious crimes. State and federal officials regularly check the immigrant status of those who are arrested or serving time in prison.

Myth No. 6— Americans oppose allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the United States and become citizens. Polling data suggest there is public support for a “path to citizenship” for illegal immigrants currently in the country, subject to certain conditions. Results from a Pew Research Center survey show that 63% favor a “path to citizenship” if illegal immigrants pass a background check, pay fines and have a job.

https://www.adl.org/resources/fact-sheets/myths-and-facts-about-immigrants-and-immigration

It is true that there are more immigrants living in the U.S. than ever before. However, the percentage of immigrants in the overall population is not much different than many other times throughout our history. Today immigrants make up approximately13% of the total U.S. population. From 1900 to 1930, immigrants made up between 12% and 15% of the population, and similar spikes occurred in the 1850s and 1880s.

In 2014 there were approximately 11.3 million undocumented immigrants living and working in the U.S., which is actually a significant decrease from the 12.2 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. in 2007. Today, in fact, the net migration from Mexico (the number of people entering the U.S. from Mexico minus the number of people leaving the U.S. to go to Mexico) is around zero. Undocumented immigrants make up about 3.5 percent of the nation’s total population.

Studies have consistently found that immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans and that there was no correlation between crime rates and levels of immigration. Other studies have in fact found that crime rates are lowest in states with the highest immigration growth rates.

In fact, immigrants are twice as likely to start businesses as citizens born in the U.S., and companies owned by immigrants are more likely to hire employees than companies owned by native-born citizens. States with large numbers of immigrants report lower unemployment for everyone.

Immigrants collectively pay between $90 and $140 billion each year in taxes, and a recent study found that undocumented immigrants alone paid more than $11.8 billion in taxes in 2012. Everyone pays sales taxes on goods they purchase and property taxes on the homes they buy or rent, and more than half of all undocumented immigrant households file income tax returns using Individual Tax Identification Numbers.

With very few exceptions (such as access to medical care for victims of human trafficking), undocumented immigrants are not eligible for federal public benefits such as Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare and food stamps. In addition, most immigrants with lawful status are not entitled to these benefits until they have been in the country for five years or longer. This means that Social Security is often being deducted from immigrants’ paychecks but they cannot access those benefits.

Although people have claimed that undocumented immigrants have brought diseases to the U.S., including measles, hepatitis C, HIV, tuberculosis, and even ebola, the allegations are not supported by science or medicine. There is no evidence that immigrants have been the source of any modern outbreaks in the U.S. According to the World Health Organization, 113 countries, including many countries in Latin America, have higher vaccination rates for 1-year-olds than the U.S.

According to a 2015 report by the U.S Department of State, Bureau of Counterterrorism, “there are no known international terrorist organizations operating in Mexico, despite several erroneous reports to the contrary during 2014.” In fact, the vast majority of U.S. residents linked to terror since 2002 are U.S. citizens.

Although many people commonly think of undocumented immigrants as people who have snuck across the Mexican border, somewhere between one third and one half of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. have overstayed their visitor, student, or work visas. That means that they entered the U.S. with lawful documentation and only later became undocumented.

A wall or a fence along the entire border with Mexico would be impractical and very likely ineffective. The border between the U.S. and Mexico is almost 2,000 miles long. It spans difficult terrain, including deserts and mountains. Rivers flow along two thirds of the border. Much of the area is private property, which the government would have to buy from the owners to build a fence or wall, and many do not want to sell the land. The logistics alone make building a wall very difficult, if not impossible.

There's more:

https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst...y/benefits-of-immigration-outweigh-costs.html
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.ed...s-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/
https://www.americanprogress.org/is...02/08/52377/immigrants-are-makers-not-takers/
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

Why do you try? He already admitted that he doesn’t believe anything he sees from a news org
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

Nice info, but you ignore the major reason why we need to restrict their numbers.

They're brown.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

Well I see this thread blew up today :eek:

I support NAFTA and the TPP. Clinton got worked on that one and stupidly changed her mind. Why do I support them? Because the alternative is worse. And Dump is proving that every minute.

Iowa is going to get boned by China on Soybeans. And I'm going to relish every minute of it.

So are we. I have a buddy that ships soybeans and other grains overseas (mostly to Asia) and this stuff is painful to them. Lets just say they are 4-5 Reagan Republicans that want to shove a cattle prod up Trump's behind.
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump: Immigrants are threatening to "infest" the U.S. <a href="https://t.co/cTqkTjAk4x">https://t.co/cTqkTjAk4x</a></p>— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) <a href="https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1009092961638985728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dear <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@realDonaldTrump</a>: Like your grandfather, my parents infested America. As their son with yellow skin, I now get to vote against your harmful policies. And after you leave due to either losing reelection or impeachment, I will still be here reversing your ****.<br><br>Cheers. <a href="https://t.co/vN4fJfp4h9">https://t.co/vN4fJfp4h9</a></p>— Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) <a href="https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1009134182830919680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump’s statement that immigrants will “infest our Country” probably sounds better in the original German. <a href="https://t.co/k7FBgBkCHQ">https://t.co/k7FBgBkCHQ</a></p>— Bill Kristol (@BillKristol) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1009081534341636097?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Modern Family" co-creator to leave Fox in protest of Fox News's coverage of child detention centers <a href="https://t.co/ibETIeFtdQ">https://t.co/ibETIeFtdQ</a> <a href="https://t.co/qA8lDl5KIV">pic.twitter.com/qA8lDl5KIV</a></p>— The Hill (@thehill) <a href="https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1009229118041481216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"This is fringe s**t..." -- Some of the stars of FOX entertainment have had enough with FOX News. <a href="https://t.co/TS72JmCPUk">https://t.co/TS72JmCPUk</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/11MSNBC?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#11MSNBC</a> <a href="https://t.co/3b5qUrRMXZ">pic.twitter.com/3b5qUrRMXZ</a></p>— 11th Hour (@11thHour) <a href="https://twitter.com/11thHour/status/1009212984617340928?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Never forget: The same Republicans blowing off children being snatched from their parents and locked in cages were the ones who cracked jokes a few years back about children being kidnapped and raped. <a href="https://t.co/4nRJikTweV">https://t.co/4nRJikTweV</a></p>— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) <a href="https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1009217925029482496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sarah Sanders says the White House will not consider standalone legislation to stop family separation. They'll only consider legislation that includes funding for a border wall, etc. <br><br>So yea. The White House just confirmed that these children are, in fact, being used as pawns.</p>— Caroline O. (@RVAwonk) <a href="https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1008834507678666754?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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