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POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

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Wisko McBadgerton said:
I wouldn't go so far as to say "nothing" will work. We could conceivably turn NK into a parking lot. That would stop proliferation. We could probably give the Kim's a trillion dollars. That could conceivably work. The question is how much less carrot and/or less stick would actually still get something verifiable done? The situation is somewhat different than in the 90's, although there are many similarities. (US politics is still an obstacle, for example.)
The main thing though, as always, is China. China cutting 81% of cash and goods inflow has really squeezed the Kim's and that's perhaps different this time around. Obviously they can't bleed the peasantry any more than they already are to pay for their Beamers, Hookers, and Coke, so they are again getting in a very tight spot between being broke and having 3 or 4 US Carrier Groups under the control of a lunatic on their doorstep every few months. Now if China doesn't bail them out, there's at least some possibility to make some progress.




Like the 1992 Joint Declaration on Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula between NK and SK, the Agreed Upon Framework was, by definition, a non-binding political commitment of a few pages. As opposed to say the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, which was binding. Not that it's that significant in retrospect, as NK violated all of them.
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True war could work, but I was speaking diplomatically. I abhor war.
 
Timothy A said:
I'm really not on the "yeah Trump" team. I do LOVE the fact that he's wrankling the establishments' (politicians and media) feathers, it's commical reading and watching all the hyperventilating anti Trumps trying not pass out every 5 minutes, and yes I do like this KN thing. It could be really good. More than anything I am anti establishment at this point in my life. Ban lobbyists, ban political media ads, have term limits. Give the government back to the people.
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Most "establishment" types are mentally stable. Trump is not mentally stable. Therefore, Trump is "anti-establishment". That's basically what the term has come to mean.
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

Timothy A said:
Ban lobbyists, ban political media ads, have term limits. Give the government back to the people.
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And Trump is doing nothing about any of those. In fact he's doubling down on lobbyists.
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

It's essentially the same agreement that's been signed for 30 years, but worse. I suppose it's possible NK could smarten up, and actually denuclearize, I won't hold my breath though...
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

Timothy A said:
I'm really not on the "yeah Trump" team. I do LOVE the fact that he's wrankling the establishments' (politicians and media) feathers, it's commical reading and watching all the hyperventilating anti Trumps trying not pass out every 5 minutes, and yes I do like this KN thing. It could be really good. More than anything I am anti establishment at this point in my life. Ban lobbyists, ban political media ads, have term limits. Give the government back to the people.
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He isn't anti-establishment. He's just an ignoramus with a giant ego and an ability to tell the truth.

We're not objecting to his politics. We're objecting to that fact that he's an awful person. He just happens to have hijacked some sophomoric memes that run wild in the righty community.

The policies coming out of this administration are an even more naked transfer of the national wealth to the rich and an even more aggressive and careless mixture of pure personal corruption, but yes, we have come to expect that from the GOP -- it's their whole mission.

But he's eroding the rule of law, and that's way, way, way across the line. We're unhappy about that... and that makes you happy. Think about how easily he played you. Want to get mad at "those out of touch guys screwing us over"? The dude you are bending and scraping for is #1 with a bullet doing that to you, right this second.
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
It's essentially the same agreement that's been signed for 30 years, but worse. I suppose it's possible NK could smarten up, and actually denuclearize, I won't hold my breath though...
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Let's be honest. Trump and the U.S. didn't gain anything out of whatever "agreement" came of this meeting. Kim probably gained something in terms of feeling like he received recognition on a global stage.

Personally I think there are only two possible benefits to a meeting like this one, whether it's between Trump and Kim, or any other two leaders.

First, if one of them is so insecure and unhappy about being treated as a second class leader, it's maybe not all bad that he receive even the modest amount received by Kim and Trump here. If we're going to deal with a ruthless little dictator with nuclear capability, I'd rather deal with one who feels like he might be achieving some recognition he thinks is long past due rather than an angry one who thinks he has a point to prove.

Second, personally I've always thought that it would be difficult for a leader to drop bombs on another leader that he's met and had dinner with. It just makes it a little more personal, and anything that might keep these two clowns from lobbing bombs back and forth at each other is a good thing.
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

SJHovey said:
First, if one of them is so insecure and unhappy about being treated as a second class leader, it's maybe not all bad that he receive even the modest amount received by Kim and Trump here. If we're going to deal with a ruthless little dictator with nuclear capability, I'd rather deal with one who feels like he might be achieving some recognition he thinks is long past due rather than an angry one who thinks he has a point to prove.
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So we have truly entered this world, then.

It's real fine what Trump's done. Real fine. We sure do love him.
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

SJHovey said:
Let's be honest. Trump and the U.S. didn't gain anything out of whatever "agreement" came of this meeting. Kim probably gained something in terms of feeling like he received recognition on a global stage.
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Not what I heard.

From what I heard from Trump himself via twitter is that the nuclear threat is over.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1006837823469735936?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

Does it make me a bad person that I almost wish Kim would nuke Guam, just to see Trumpy's reaction?
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

And, switching topics, just how bad do you think the stuff was that Cohen's legal team saw to drop him like a hot potato?
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

rufus said:
Does it make me a bad person that I almost wish Kim would nuke Guam, just to see Trumpy's reaction?
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No worse than some of the people here who actively wish for Trump to do terrible things so that their team wins next time.
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

trixR4kids said:
No worse than some of the people here who actively wish for Trump to do terrible things so that their team wins next time.
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Not to mention that Dumpy being awful has in no way lessened his chance of re-election. If Dump nuked Belgium this evening the GOP, their pundits, and their idiot base would immediately guffaw about those Walloons finally getting what was coming to them and how Dump looked so strong back lit by the mushroom clouds on Fox.
 
rufus said:
And, switching topics, just how bad do you think the stuff was that Cohen's legal team saw to drop him like a hot potato?
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Lawyers don't generally drop clients because the facts are bad. They get dropped because they won't pay, they won't follow the attorney's advice, or they're doing something that could threaten the attorney as well (saying they're going to perjure themselves, for instance). I'm going to guess this is one of the latter. In the Donald's case, it's all of the above.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

unofan said:
Lawyers don't generally drop clients because the facts are bad. They get dropped because they either won't pay or they won't follow the attorney's advice. I'm going to guess this is the latter. In the Donald's case, it's both.
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:D

imagine if just being guilty couldn't get one a lawyer :p
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

unofan said:
Lawyers don't generally drop clients because the facts are bad. They get dropped because they either won't pay or they won't follow the attorney's advice. I'm going to guess this is the latter. In the Donald's case, it's both.
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The article I read said Cohen can't pay his bills. Prolly wishing he hadn't paid for all those hookers' abortions out of pocket now.
 
Re: POTUS 45.35: Still Winning. Don't care if you're tired of winning.

Kepler said:
Not to mention that Dumpy being awful has in no way lessened his chance of re-election. If Dump nuked Belgium this evening the GOP, their pundits, and their idiot base would immediately guffaw about those Walloons finally getting what was coming to them and how Dump looked so strong back lit by the mushroom clouds on Fox.
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But what about the Flemish?
 
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