POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Dems have sometimes hedged their bets when they shouldn't have. Knuckling under to War Fever was the worst case of that. Equivocating with the 1% and missing their chance to roll back the Reagan-Cheney Plutocracy wholesale after the 2006 financial crisis was almost as bad. In the former case I can sympathize: after an attack the nation descends to the level of its dumbest, most violent elements, and defying that would have taken an act of bravery unprecedented in American politics. The latter case made me suspicious the Dems have been compromised by the same wealthy toe jam that has made the GOP an irredeemable sewer.

But the Dems are still 999999999999999999999999999999.99% better than the Republicans and likely will be for the rest of our lifetimes. The Dems are corrupted around the edges; the GOP is a fascist party to its core.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Absurd. Hiking takes on the rich (Clinton, Obama), expanding health care access (Clinton with CHiP, Obama with ACA), expanded regulation on financial industry (Dodd-Frank), weren't done to "make the Repubs like them more" unless your vantage point is that of a certifiable lunatic. As I've said before, if the Republicans message is "Dems suck. They haven't gotten anything done ever." and the message of liberals is "Dems suck. They haven't gotten anything done ever." - do you maybe, kinda, a little bit, see why that doesn't help the Dems obtain power and put people like Elizabeth Warren in charge of overseeing Wall St from her Senate perch for example?

Tell me again how Hillary was a lock.

I'm not saying on everything. But time and again, the Dems show exactly how spineless they are by backing down to Republicans on policy. I see you didn't even bother to address the things I mentioned, but brought up a bunch of others. OK,

CHiP. An already existing program that electing a Dem meant it would continue. Nothing new,. groundbreaking, or particularly game-changing about it.

ACA. A Rube Goldberg contraption based on a Conservative think tank's policy papers. Truly progressive. And they killed their bargaining power from the get-go by taking the public option, let alone single payer, off the table.

Dodd-Frank was about the most watered down financial "regulation" they could get passed, as again, they wouldn't fight the Repubs for anything tougher. But once again, policy straight out of that centrist, Third Way, Republican lite that you think the Dems should be. And what about this most recent horrible banking legislation they joined with the Repubs to get passed?


Donald Trump ran on a populist message, even though just an act, and got elected. But somehow, the Democrats shouldn't go that way, and should stick to the tried and true milquetoast stances that got them smoked by Trump in the first place. What's the definition of insanity again?


But Hillary was a lock, right?

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Dems have sometimes hedged their bets when they shouldn't have. Knuckling under to War Fever was the worst case of that. Equivocating with the 1% and missing their chance to roll back the Reagan-Cheney Plutocracy wholesale after the 2006 financial crisis was almost as bad. In the former case I can sympathize: after an attack the nation descends to the level of its dumbest, most violent elements, and defying that would have taken an act of bravery unprecedented in American politics. The latter case made me suspicious the Dems have been compromised by the same wealthy toe jam that has made the GOP an irredeemable sewer.

But the Dems are still 999999999999999999999999999999.99% better than the Republicans and likely will be for the rest of our lifetimes. The Dems are corrupted around the edges; the GOP is a fascist party to its core.

So true. And if we want to get better democrats, we need to reward the ones who do the right things, and criticize and punish the ones who don't. Maybe then, we can get Dems back to standing up for the working people, the unions, and the backbone of this country, instead of being just a less worse version of the Republicans.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Donald Trump ran on a populist message, even though just an act, and got elected. But somehow, the Democrats shouldn't go that way, and should stick to the tried and true milquetoast stances that got them smoked by Trump in the first place. What's the definition of insanity again?

This was what was most galling. Dumpy lied but was put over the top by the anti-aristocratic messaging that OUGHT to be the bread and butter of Democratic policy. Third Way is a loser message under the new circumstances of the American middle class falling rapidly due to the rot of nearly 50 years of neoliberal economics.

People laugh at Bernie but he was at least willing to revive real liberalism for the first time on a national stage in two generations. And he was wildly popular for it. He just wasn't popular among the donor class and the Democratic party's entrenched interests, for the obvious reason that they're all f-cking millionaires or billionaires. The Democratic party has been colonized by the very people whose economic policy preferences are destroying the country. They're great on civil rights and social issues, and that's important, but they totally suck when it comes to economic justice. We either have to convert them, coerce them, or replace them.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Ah rufus, another zealot short on facts:

"The legislation to create it was sponsored by Senator Ted Kennedy in a partnership with Senator Orrin Hatch,[3] with support coming from First Lady Hillary Clinton during the Clinton administration.[4][5][6] At its creation in 1997, SCHIP was the largest expansion of taxpayer-funded health insurance coverage for children in the U.S. since[citation needed] Lyndon Johnson established Medicaid in 1965.[7] The statutory authority for CHIP is under title XXI of the Social Security Act."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Health_Insurance_Program#State_administration

Now I'm not saying you're an idiot, but in your own comments you are 100% wrong about a new law passed in Clinton's term and partially written by noted right winger Ted Kennedy that EXPANDED FEDERAL HEALTHCARE!!! If this is the goal of progressive crowd, why in God's name are you trashing, instead of celebrating, a significant victory in that battle? Misinformed comments like yours are killing the Democrats and the cause of liberalism. The GOP is perfectly capable of distorting Dem accomplishments. Why you want to climb in bed with them is beyond me.

This reminds me of trix blasting Dem Senators for supporting recent GOP Tax Theft, when in reality no Dem Senator, not even the ones up for re-election in states Chump won by double digits, supported the legislation. Might I suggest some you get a little better informed next time? With friends like you...

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

This was what was most galling. Dumpy lied but was put over the top by the anti-aristocratic messaging that OUGHT to be the bread and butter of Democratic policy. Third Way is a loser message under the new circumstances of the American middle class falling rapidly due to the rot of nearly 50 years of neoliberal economics.

People laugh at Bernie but he was at least willing to revive real liberalism for the first time on a national stage in two generations. And he was wildly popular for it. He just wasn't popular among the donor class and the Democratic party's entrenched interests, for the obvious reason that they're all f-cking millionaires or billionaires. The Democratic party has been colonized by the very people whose economic policy preferences are destroying the country. They're great on civil rights and social issues, and that's important, but they totally suck when it comes to economic justice. We either have to convert them, coerce them, or replace them.

Kep, Trump ran on a message of racism and white supremacy. His rhetoric wasn't meant to improve the economic situation of the working class. It was to capitalize on the fears of older americans that the country was becoming less white and giving away too much $$$ and power to blacks, immigrants, Muslims, etc. Nothing, and I mean nothing, Bernie Sanders or anybody else could do or say would have overcome that message.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Ah rufus, another zealot short on facts:

"The legislation to create it was sponsored by Senator Ted Kennedy in a partnership with Senator Orrin Hatch,[3] with support coming from First Lady Hillary Clinton during the Clinton administration.[4][5][6] At its creation in 1997, SCHIP was the largest expansion of taxpayer-funded health insurance coverage for children in the U.S. since[citation needed] Lyndon Johnson established Medicaid in 1965.[7] The statutory authority for CHIP is under title XXI of the Social Security Act."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Health_Insurance_Program#State_administration

Now I'm not saying you're an idiot, but in your own comments you are 100% wrong about a new law passed in Clinton's term and partially written by noted right winger Ted Kennedy that EXPANDED FEDERAL HEALTHCARE!!! If this is the goal of progressive crowd, why in God's name are you trashing, instead of celebrating, a significant victory in that battle? Misinformed comments like yours are killing the Democrats and the cause of liberalism. The GOP is perfectly capable of distorting Dem accomplishments. Why you want to climb in bed with them is beyond me.

This reminds me of trix blasting Dem Senators for supporting recent GOP Tax Theft, when in reality no Dem Senator, not even the ones up for re-election in states Chump won by double digits, supported the legislation. Might I suggest some you get a little better informed next time? With friends like you...

Great, she supported legislation sponsored by a real liberal, legislation passed 20 years ago. What was she going to do now? She couldn't articulate a winning message. The only thing she was running on was "Trump is crazy".

That's not enough when all the good paying jobs are being shipped out of this country, and the banksters are fleecing everyone left. What was she going to do to stop that?


Oh yeah, more Third Way "cozy up to Wall Street" bull****.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Kep, Trump ran on a message of racism and white supremacy. His rhetoric wasn't meant to improve the economic situation of the working class. It was to capitalize on the fears of older americans that the country was becoming less white and giving away too much $$$ and power to blacks, immigrants, Muslims, etc. Nothing, and I mean nothing, Bernie Sanders or anybody else could do or say would have overcome that message.

But Hillary was a lock!!! You said so.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Kep, Trump ran on a message of racism and white supremacy. His rhetoric wasn't meant to improve the economic situation of the working class. It was to capitalize on the fears of older americans that the country was becoming less white and giving away too much $$$ and power to blacks, immigrants, Muslims, etc. Nothing, and I mean nothing, Bernie Sanders or anybody else could do or say would have overcome that message.

Righty populism is always two forked (two tined?): smash the rich and hate the Other. Dumpy ran just as much on the former as the latter. The former turned out to be a total lie, of course, but he certainly ran on it.

The irony is the right's poor dumb sheeple think the "Elite" ruining this country are liberal professors. They're actual conservative businessmen, just like Dumpy himself.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Great, she supported legislation sponsored by a real liberal, legislation passed 20 years ago. What was she going to do now? She couldn't articulate a winning message. The only thing she was running on was "Trump is crazy".

That's not enough when all the good paying jobs are being shipped out of this country, and the banksters are fleecing everyone left. What was she going to do to stop that?


Oh yeah, more Third Way "cozy up to Wall Street" bull****.

So, your solution was to either sit out an election or vote FOR Trump, thus putting people like Betsy Devos, Wilber Ross, Neil Gorsuch, Rudi Giuliani, Mick Mulvaney, Scott Pruitt, and Rick Perry in charge of making policy decisions? Well done! Wow, you really showed us.

As a supporter of the CFPB to use one example, as well as Dodd-Frank and an ally of Elizabeth Warren, I would expect regulatory oversight to continue to increase as the CFPB in particular expanded its reach and more of the regulations of Dodd-Frank were implemented. Good luck with any of that occurring now.

Again, try to be better informed. This also reminds me of how Kep thought banks weren't required yet to have higher capital reserves because he heard of something called "Basel III" hadn't been implemented yet.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

So, your solution was to either sit out an election or vote FOR Trump, thus putting people like Betsy Devos, Wilber Ross, Neil Gorsuch, Rudi Giuliani, Mick Mulvaney, Scott Pruitt, and Rick Perry in charge of making policy decisions? Well done! Wow, you really showed up.

As a supporter of the CFPB to use one example, as well as Dodd-Frank and an ally of Elizabeth Warren, I would expect regulatory oversight to continue to increase as the CFPB in particular expanded its reach and more of the regulations of Dodd-Frank were implemented. Good luck with any of that occurring now.

Again, try to be better informed. This also reminds me of how Kep thought banks weren't required yet to have higher capital reserves because he heard of something called "Basel III" hadn't been implemented yet.

Just saw video from Congress. They're working on decreasing the higher capital reserves now. It'll happen. None of it would have happened under a Democratic Presidency. But, people will always believe it would have.

CFPB is dead. Done. Toast. The only reason it's still hanging on by a thread is the original law needs to be changed to kill it and the Democrats will filibuster that.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Righty populism is always two forked (two tined?): smash the rich and hate the Other. Dumpy ran just as much on the former as the latter. The former turned out to be a total lie, of course, but he certainly ran on it.

The irony is the right's poor dumb sheeple think the "Elite" ruining this country are liberal professors. They're actual conservative businessmen, just like Dumpy himself.

Yeah, sorry but have to agree to disagree on this one. Travel bans of Muslim countries, repeated emphasis on illegal immigrants committing crimes. Mexicans carrying drugs across the border. Misogyny. Few of his supporters know or care about billionaires on Wall St, but they sure don't like that Hispanic family sending their kids to school with theirs. Why do you think we're seeing so many confrontations now, to fans at high school games chanting "Trump Trump Trump" at non white players to customers berating coffee baristas for speaking Spanish to other customers in line? On the flip side, I've yet to see Trump supporters heckle a hedge fund manager or a CEO.

Trump's campaign was all about restoring white supremacy and allowing people to say and act how they please in regard to non-whites, women, certain religions, etc. It was plain as day, and he really has governed exactly how he said he would.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Yeah, sorry but have to agree to disagree on this one. Travel bans of Muslim countries, repeated emphasis on illegal immigrants committing crimes. Mexicans carrying drugs across the border. Misogyny. Few of his supporters know or care about billionaires on Wall St, but they sure don't like that Hispanic family sending their kids to school with theirs. Why do you think we're seeing so many confrontations now, to fans at high school games chanting "Trump Trump Trump" at non white players to customers berating coffee baristas for speaking Spanish to other customers in line?

Trump's campaign was all about restoring while supremacy and allowing people to say and act how they please in regard to non-whites, women, certain religions, etc. It was plain as day, and he really has governed exactly how he said he would.

America has gotten exactly what they voted for. And, he's accomplished a lot. The Courts are now stacked for years and Turtle Boy is making everyone stay after school this August to stack the sandbags higher and cheat the election.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Wow. That a "sports" media operation has a better grasp of out situation today then the so-called "political" media.


https://deadspin.com/the-nfl-is-too-dumb-to-realize-that-donald-trump-is-nev-1826558748

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

So, your solution was to either sit out an election or vote FOR Trump, thus putting people like Betsy Devos, Wilber Ross, Neil Gorsuch, Rudi Giuliani, Mick Mulvaney, Scott Pruitt, and Rick Perry in charge of making policy decisions? Well done! Wow, you really showed us.

As a supporter of the CFPB to use one example, as well as Dodd-Frank and an ally of Elizabeth Warren, I would expect regulatory oversight to continue to increase as the CFPB in particular expanded its reach and more of the regulations of Dodd-Frank were implemented. Good luck with any of that occurring now.

Again, try to be better informed. This also reminds me of how Kep thought banks weren't required yet to have higher capital reserves because he heard of something called "Basel III" hadn't been implemented yet.

No dumbass. I voted for Bernie in the NH primary. Partly cause he was the only one addressing the problems in this country, partly as hopefully a wakeup to Hillary to begin to address them as well.

When it came to the general, I held my nose and voted for your girl, just like a good Democrat would. You told me she had it in the bag. You're an idiot who no one should take political advice from. .

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

No dumbass. I voted for Bernie in the NH primary. Partly cause he was the only one addressing the problems in this country, partly as hopefully a wakeup to Hillary to begin to address them as well.

When it came to the general, I held my nose and voted for your girl, just like a good Democrat would. You told me she had it in the bag. You're an idiot who no one should take political advice from. .

Actually you did the right thing. And Rover's opinion was irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Mine or yours is no more relevant.

I was right, however.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Yeah, sorry but have to agree to disagree on this one. Travel bans of Muslim countries, repeated emphasis on illegal immigrants committing crimes. Mexicans carrying drugs across the border. Misogyny. Few of his supporters know or care about billionaires on Wall St, but they sure don't like that Hispanic family sending their kids to school with theirs. Why do you think we're seeing so many confrontations now, to fans at high school games chanting "Trump Trump Trump" at non white players to customers berating coffee baristas for speaking Spanish to other customers in line? On the flip side, I've yet to see Trump supporters heckle a hedge fund manager or a CEO.

Trump's campaign was all about restoring white supremacy and allowing people to say and act how they please in regard to non-whites, women, certain religions, etc. It was plain as day, and he really has governed exactly how he said he would.

Kepler: The Mets have both pitchers and position players.

Rover: No. Look at my list of Mets: deGrom, Syndergaard, Matz, Wheeler, Familia, Blevins...

I don't know where you work, but where I do the Dumpies always talk about putting Americans back to work, reviving the middle class, stopping unfair trade practices, and (amazingly) putting those Wall Street Jews in their place. They are talking about pocketbook issues.

I agree with you that xenophobia and racism are also bigly motivators of Dumpies, but angry populist economics is out there, too. That's why all the Movement Conservatives from places like Weekly Standard and National Review were committing suicide when Dump got the nomination: they finally understood that conservative voters in America have absolutely no interest in their supply side claptrap and never did. It's all about the prairie fires of populism sweeping down from the American Steppe to swallow the cities. It's the Jeffersonian Myth of the noble healthy lunged, calloused farmer fighting the Evils Of The Decadent City, soft hands from counting money, fercrissakes.

That narrative is where the American left and the labor movement used to live. But we traded our birthright for a mess of DLC pottage.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Just saw video from Congress. They're working on decreasing the higher capital reserves now. It'll happen. None of it would have happened under a Democratic Presidency. But, people will always believe it would have.

CFPB is dead. Done. Toast. The only reason it's still hanging on by a thread is the original law needs to be changed to kill it and the Democrats will filibuster that.

And Democrats are going along and voting for that stuff, you know.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

And Democrats are going along and voting for that stuff, you know.

Some are. Most aren't. Manchin for example is so afraid of losing his job and so afraid of Trump he's neutered. He's still better than the alternative. That's not hard to figure out.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

I don't know where you work, but where I do the Dumpies always talk about putting Americans back to work, reviving the middle class, stopping unfair trade practices, and (amazingly) putting Watt Street in its place. They are talking about pocketbook issues.

That's funny because not a single thing this administration has done has accomplished any of that. It takes a long time for the economy to catch up with policy changes. What Trump has done to the economy won't be known for another couple of years.