USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
- Thread starter ScoobyDoo
- Start date
- Status
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
First, I'm not going to pretend to argue with you about what Trump does or does not think. Candidly, I don't care because unlike most people, apparently, I still believe in our legal system. Trump can say he can pardon himself, but I wouldn't want to bet that he'll get away with that.
I think you can break it down into three categories -- What Trump thinks, what his legal team is arguing, and what the law actually provides.
Trump no doubt thinks that while he is in office he is basically immune, and that if necessary he can give himself a get out of jail free card by pardoning himself. Personally I think that if he tests that, he's going to be sadly mistaken.
I think Trump's legal team is arguing that while still in office Trump can't be indicted, subpoenaed or compelled to testify. The remedy is to impeach him. The unspoken part of that argument is that once he is out of office, he may very well be indicted, subpoenaed or compelled to testify, and can be successfully prosecuted unless he is pardoned.
I suspect, but don't know for certain, that the law will go this way:
Indictment and prosecution -- Have to wait until impeached, resigns or term runs out.
Compelled to testify, respond to subpoenas -- May depend upon whether the act occurred before taking office or after. I think the Clinton case resulted in a ruling that for acts that occurred before taking office a president can be questioned, which lead to Clinton's deposition. I think it's still an open question about whether the president can be questioned or compelled to answer a subpoena about acts that occurred while in office, until he is impeached, resigns or his term runs out. At that point he's fair game.
Once the president is out of office, he can be indicted and prosecuted for any matter that occurred while in office or while out of office, unless he is pardoned. I don't think a president can successfully pardon himself.
First, I'm not going to pretend to argue with you about what Trump does or does not think. Candidly, I don't care because unlike most people, apparently, I still believe in our legal system. Trump can say he can pardon himself, but I wouldn't want to bet that he'll get away with that.
I think you can break it down into three categories -- What Trump thinks, what his legal team is arguing, and what the law actually provides.
Trump no doubt thinks that while he is in office he is basically immune, and that if necessary he can give himself a get out of jail free card by pardoning himself. Personally I think that if he tests that, he's going to be sadly mistaken.
I think Trump's legal team is arguing that while still in office Trump can't be indicted, subpoenaed or compelled to testify. The remedy is to impeach him. The unspoken part of that argument is that once he is out of office, he may very well be indicted, subpoenaed or compelled to testify, and can be successfully prosecuted unless he is pardoned.
I suspect, but don't know for certain, that the law will go this way:
Indictment and prosecution -- Have to wait until impeached, resigns or term runs out.
Compelled to testify, respond to subpoenas -- May depend upon whether the act occurred before taking office or after. I think the Clinton case resulted in a ruling that for acts that occurred before taking office a president can be questioned, which lead to Clinton's deposition. I think it's still an open question about whether the president can be questioned or compelled to answer a subpoena about acts that occurred while in office, until he is impeached, resigns or his term runs out. At that point he's fair game.
Once the president is out of office, he can be indicted and prosecuted for any matter that occurred while in office or while out of office, unless he is pardoned. I don't think a president can successfully pardon himself.
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
Unless his election has personally affected you (and if so you have my sympathies) do what I do and take pleasure in watching his supporters take it in the shorts over his policies. You can also get some humor out of asking the people who sat out the election if they still think there was no difference between the candidates! Bottom line Scooby, once you learn to have fun at other people's expense for the idiotic political decisions they make, life gets a lot more enjoyable.
Unless his election has personally affected you (and if so you have my sympathies) do what I do and take pleasure in watching his supporters take it in the shorts over his policies. You can also get some humor out of asking the people who sat out the election if they still think there was no difference between the candidates! Bottom line Scooby, once you learn to have fun at other people's expense for the idiotic political decisions they make, life gets a lot more enjoyable.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
Unless you've figured out how to be insulated from the natural environment and the US and global economies, you have been personally affected.
Unless you've figured out how to be insulated from the natural environment and the US and global economies, you have been personally affected.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
The grass isn’t always greener.
unofan
Well-known member
But many times it is.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Certainly can be greener in some European nations I’ve lived in
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
I'll bet the body count from our school mass murders now is much higher than the riots and the campus shootings in 68.
We'll call cops murdering unarmed blacks a wash since they've been doing that all along, they just didn't have cell phones in 68.
In 68 the federal government and the judiciary were gradually on the upswing of cleaning out the reactionary sewers. Now they're in the vanguard of the movement to return us to the brutality of a righty worldview. So that part's worse.
And in 68 people were turning out in the streets and making a difference. Now the 1% have found ways to lull everyone into a deep and dreamless slumber. So that part's a lot worse.
I'll bet the body count from our school mass murders now is much higher than the riots and the campus shootings in 68.
We'll call cops murdering unarmed blacks a wash since they've been doing that all along, they just didn't have cell phones in 68.
In 68 the federal government and the judiciary were gradually on the upswing of cleaning out the reactionary sewers. Now they're in the vanguard of the movement to return us to the brutality of a righty worldview. So that part's worse.
And in 68 people were turning out in the streets and making a difference. Now the 1% have found ways to lull everyone into a deep and dreamless slumber. So that part's a lot worse.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
I stay. You can't steal my country. Not to put too fine a point on it, but f-ck you.
<img src="https://i1.wp.com/manhattanwomensclub.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/rockwells-four-freedoms.jpg" height="666" />
I stay. You can't steal my country. Not to put too fine a point on it, but f-ck you.
<img src="https://i1.wp.com/manhattanwomensclub.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/rockwells-four-freedoms.jpg" height="666" />
Last edited:
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
An hour or two ago you were saying you'd rather be somewhere else.
An hour or two ago you were saying you'd rather be somewhere else.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
You and your white folk have it pretty good it seems!
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
An hour or two I said other countries were better. That doesn't mean I want to be somewhere else. It means I want to take my country back from the scum who have temporarily occupied it.
An hour or two I said other countries were better. That doesn't mean I want to be somewhere else. It means I want to take my country back from the scum who have temporarily occupied it.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
Good luck. Their voting block doesn't waffle. Ours does. The cracks in the Dems are already forming. Top crack is the idiot they put in charge.
Good luck. Their voting block doesn't waffle. Ours does. The cracks in the Dems are already forming. Top crack is the idiot they put in charge.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
We outnumber them. They only win when they cheat.
We outnumber them. They only win when they cheat.
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
If it's a simple question of whether I'd rather live somewhere else, that's not difficult--Yes, without question. But, you (and all the people that like to trot this line out) can't possibly be dense enough to think it's that simple for the vast majority of people.
If it's a simple question of whether I'd rather live somewhere else, that's not difficult--Yes, without question. But, you (and all the people that like to trot this line out) can't possibly be dense enough to think it's that simple for the vast majority of people.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
Appears to me their reproductive rate is higher. Unless they're going with Hispanics. Then it depends on which Hispanics you're talking about. A lot of Hispanics are Catholic so they fall on the Right there. AND, just about all the Cuban Americans voted GOP because Obama opened up Cuba. Which was the right thing to do but may have cost the Dems Florida for the next two decades or more.
So, dying isn't working for me.
Appears to me their reproductive rate is higher. Unless they're going with Hispanics. Then it depends on which Hispanics you're talking about. A lot of Hispanics are Catholic so they fall on the Right there. AND, just about all the Cuban Americans voted GOP because Obama opened up Cuba. Which was the right thing to do but may have cost the Dems Florida for the next two decades or more.
So, dying isn't working for me.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.
Yes. 2000, 2004, and 2016 that's true. And they'll do it again. Also interesting how vulnerable Kerry and Clinton both were to soundbites. "Flip Flop" and "Lock Her Up". Two of the most juvenile things you'll ever hear at a national party convention and two things you should never hear in the United States.
Yes. 2000, 2004, and 2016 that's true. And they'll do it again. Also interesting how vulnerable Kerry and Clinton both were to soundbites. "Flip Flop" and "Lock Her Up". Two of the most juvenile things you'll ever hear at a national party convention and two things you should never hear in the United States.
- Status