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POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

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Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

alfablue said:
The fact that the deal came down 3.5 weeks ago could suggest that his singing skills have come in handy.
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Papadopoulos was also a "proactive cooperator", so it's probably not just him singing, but also him gathering evidence on other people.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Rover said:
I don't see these guys doing 20 years for Chump. Manafort's 68 years old. That's pretty much a death sentence. Sure maybe he gets pardoned but I wouldn't count on Trump's word on that (which he can't give anyway or he really is looking at an obstruction of justice charge).
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Sure. Trump will pardon them. And that will be a Constitutional Crisis that makes Watergate look like a kid's pool party.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

The one thing I'd add to the excellent summary is the Ukranian govt at the time was tight with Putin, and probably wasn't making deals with well connected GOP insiders without Vlady's knowledge and consent. That I imagine as well as the obvious leverage over Manafort is what peaked Mueller's interest.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
The news core kept on asking Sarah Kentucky Fried Sanders about Trump always hiring the best people. She didn't have a good answer. Kept saying they were the best for what Trump needed them for basically.
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Sure.
Trumpy: hmmm, who can I get that's even more involved with Russian money laundering than I am? I know.........Manafort!!!
 
aparch said:
Ignoring the fact that Flaggy isn't grasping the width of this investigation, I got some questions for the more politically intuitive here:

PopohugeGreekname is pleading Guilty. Manafort and Gates are silent (as of this early breaking news. If they don't crack, and, as evidence has obviously shown, stay silent about who all was involved in their money laundering of Ukrainian cash, (and Popo admitting guilt is a big help) could there be enough connections to start tying closer Trump family members into the same money laundering scheme? Ie: Usay, Quday, and The Kush?

Also, I love me some RICO charges! Is this what the 20's and 30's felt like when they nabbed gangsters?
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More likely it'll be business partners of Trumpy. His lawyer Cohen, that guy who was a CIA asset, forget his name, a bunch of others in the Trumpy Org. Inner circle
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

ScoobyDoo said:
I know. And so does Manafort and Trump and the rest of them. I wonder why. I really want to know. It makes no sense.
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Cause no one dares fight them on it. They never get in trouble and even if they do get called to the carpet they get harsh words and no real punishment.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Handyman said:
Cause no one dares fight them on it. They never get in trouble and even if they do get called to the carpet they get harsh words and no real punishment.
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I see. I just always thought the world was inherently more honest than that. It's (to coin a Trump phrase) Sad.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

ScoobyDoo said:
Sean will be spending all his time trying to destroy Mueller's reputation in the media. There is a Newt tweet out there that says Mueller is untouchable from an integrity standpoint. I expect him to retract that on Fox News soon. Maybe on Hannity's program.
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Only once they get to the bottom of cheeseburger-gate.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

aparch said:
Thank you, thank you! I needed this Cliff Notes version!
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Here are some things that I don't get about the whole deal, though.

First, why didn't Manafort register as the agent? You can lobby on behalf of the Ukraine. Obviously the two lobbying firms from D.C. that did it with Manafort's oversight were registered. Why didn't Manafort? Was it to hide a relationship with the Ukraine that began way back in 2008? And if so, why hide that relationship? I'm going to be disappointed if the only reason was a scheme to keep the payments off the IRS radar and avoid paying taxes. That's just stupid. According to the feds he was paid $18 million. Jeebus, pay some taxes. You're going to be wealthy anyway.

If I'm the Ukrainians, I have to be wondering why I'm paying a middleman, Manafort, a fee. The feds say that $75 million was run through the offshore accounts. $18 million to Manafort and $3 million to Gates. So the rest went to the legitimate lobbying firms? Why didn't the Ukraines skip the Manafort and go directly to the legitimate firms? If they needed Manafort's brilliance and connections, then why not tell Manafort to register and be the lobbyist himself? Or was the $18 million for something else?

I'd really like to know where the $54 million went that didn't go to Manafort and Gates. Did it go to the legitimate firms, or are those payouts the subject of the next round of indictments.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

SJHovey said:
Here are some things that I don't get about the whole deal, though.

First, why didn't Manafort register as the agent? You can lobby on behalf of the Ukraine. Obviously the two lobbying firms from D.C. that did it with Manafort's oversight were registered. Why didn't Manafort? Was it to hide a relationship with the Ukraine that began way back in 2008? And if so, why hide that relationship? I'm going to be disappointed if the only reason was a scheme to keep the payments off the IRS radar and avoid paying taxes. That's just stupid. According to the feds he was paid $18 million. Jeebus, pay some taxes. You're going to be wealthy anyway.

If I'm the Ukrainians, I have to be wondering why I'm paying a middleman, Manafort, a fee. The feds say that $75 million was run through the offshore accounts. $18 million to Manafort and $3 million to Gates. So the rest went to the legitimate lobbying firms? Why didn't the Ukraines skip the Manafort and go directly to the legitimate firms? If they needed Manafort's brilliance and connections, then why not tell Manafort to register and be the lobbyist himself? Or was the $18 million for something else?

I'd really like to know where the $54 million went that didn't go to Manafort and Gates. Did it go to the legitimate firms, or are those payouts the subject of the next round of indictments.
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Cause the lobbying was secondary to his real purpose of money laundering. That $54 million was probably used by those shell companies to buy the properties that Manafort and his partners flipped/borrowed against/whatever to get even more cash for themselves.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

For one thing, it is now clear that President Trump closely relied upon Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates while they were engaged in alleged criminal activity. That is a damming indictment of the president’s judgment. Their prosecution will hang over him and his administration for the foreseeable future, since these proceedings will continue for many months, and perhaps years. And these are unlikely to be the last of the charges pursued by Robert Mueller, the special counsel, who is also reported to be looking at other actors, including the president himself.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/...t-trump-russia.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

THE BEST PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

trixR4kids said:
Gov Dayton posted something about how Trump's "tax reform" would affect middle class MN families. It's not good: https://mn.gov/governor/newsroom/?id=1055-316777
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No one cares about Blue States. That's why that thing is in there. And, you want to know the funniest part of it all? Even with that tax deduction blue states are STILL fininancing red states. With this new tax proposal that financing becomes even higher.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

rufus said:
Cause the lobbying was secondary to his real purpose of money laundering. That $54 million was probably used by those shell companies to buy the properties that Manafort and his partners flipped/borrowed against/whatever to get even more cash for themselves.
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I would think if that were the case the Feds would have listed those wires as well.

They listed the $12 million wired to the contractors, clothiers, etc..., and the $6.4 to purchase the condos/houses. The indictment is silent on the $54 million. It only says that $75 million was run through the shell companies, with $18 million to Manafort (as I just described) and $3 million to Gates. I arrived at the $54 million by just doing the math.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

SJHovey said:
I would think if that were the case the Feds would have listed those wires as well.

They listed the $12 million wired to the contractors, clothiers, etc..., and the $6.4 to purchase the condos/houses. The indictment is silent on the $54 million. It only says that $75 million was run through the shell companies, with $18 million to Manafort (as I just described) and $3 million to Gates. I arrived at the $54 million by just doing the math.
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They might not know that yet. They can always amend. The Feds have a high rate of conviction for a reason they are patient and wait til they have all the ducks in a row.
 
Re: POTUS 45.22 - The Genius of Donald Trump

Handyman said:
They might not know that yet. They can always amend. The Feds have a high rate of conviction for a reason they are patient and wait til they have all the ducks in a row.
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I suppose that's possible, but if they have all of the transaction documents showing the money coming into the shell companies from the Ukraine, and $21 million going out to Manafort and Gates, its seems odd to me that they don't have records showing distribution of the $54 million. It either has to be money handed over to the actual lobbyists for their fees, it's still sitting in the shell company accounts, or it was distributed to the people who are next to be indicted.
 
SJHovey said:
I suppose that's possible, but if they have all of the transaction documents showing the money coming into the shell companies from the Ukraine, and $21 million going out to Manafort and Gates, its seems odd to me that they don't have records showing distribution of the $54 million. It either has to be money handed over to the actual lobbyists for their fees, it's still sitting in the shell company accounts, or it was distributed to the people who are next to be indicted.
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It's also possible that there's no reason to think those others recipients of the money have any connection to the Trump campaign. Nailing random people for money laundering isn't really Mueller's end game here.
 
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