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POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

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Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Rover said:
That's why this tax idea is in a bit more trouble than people think. Trump's bread and butter voters get zilch out of this. The rich get all the goodies. That's not why they elected the man, especially after Itch and Weasel Paul Ryan put their stink all over it.
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Well ideally they would drape a death penalty for Muslims or something over it to get the Deplorables on board. But I think they still love it simply because people with a brain keep telling them it's bad. At this point these people have no actual motivations in life beyond "I wanna hurt those people over there!!!" Trump is the President of the Toddlers, and the Deplorables are the Nation of Toddlers.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

unofan said:
And we're back to the "taxation is punishment" canard. Go back to the minor leagues with that shiat, meat.
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If the tax is such that puts you out of business, it's certainly not an incentive. It appears that in this particular scenario, by being inefficient enough, bbdl can avoid enough tax to stay in business.

You're whole scenario of starting at zero is silly. Today it takes massive capital to start a farm. Who has that kind of capital? People who have generations of sweat equity invested in a farm. Or large corporations and the Government.

Bass Ale was on the right track with your plans. Why wait and chip away at it? Just nationalize everything now and little johhny can go work for the farming collective if he wants. I doubt bbdl cares if he loses it to a corporation or the government. All the same from his point of view.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Wisko McBadgerton said:
If the tax is such that puts you out of business, it's certainly not an incentive. It appears that in this particular scenario, by being inefficient enough, bbdl can avoid enough tax to stay in business.

You're whole scenario of starting at zero is silly. Today it takes massive capital to start a farm. Who has that kind of capital? People who have generations of sweat equity invested in a farm. Or large corporations and the Government.

Bass Ale was on the right track with your plans. Why wait and chip away at it? Just nationalize everything now and little johhny can go work for the farming collective if he wants. I doubt bbdl cares if he loses it to a corporation or the government. All the same from his point of view.
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:rolleyes:
 
Wisko McBadgerton said:
If the tax is such that puts you out of business, it's certainly not an incentive. It appears that in this particular scenario, by being inefficient enough, bbdl can avoid enough tax to stay in business.

You're whole scenario of starting at zero is silly. Today it takes massive capital to start a farm. Who has that kind of capital? People who have generations of sweat equity invested in a farm. Or large corporations and the Government.

Bass Ale was on the right track with your plans. Why wait and chip away at it? Just nationalize everything now and little johhny can go work for the farming collective if he wants. I doubt bbdl cares if he loses it to a corporation or the government. All the same from his point of view.
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I'm not Kepler, I don't advocate for a 90 percent estate tax. I don't think 40 or 50 percent above a threshold is unreasonable, though.

Right now, the estate tax only impacts 2 out of 1,000 estates. We're literally arguing over the top .2 percent of the population in terms of inherited wealth.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

I guess what it comes down to for me is this. If Buffett or Gates or Zuckerberg or whoever wants to leave a zillion dollars to their family, give it to charity or snort it up their nose in cocaine, I don't really care. It's their money. They earned it. I find nothing unfair about their kids getting a "head start" (do we really refer to inheriting a billion dollars as only a "head start"?) over the rest of us.

I guess you have to go to an Ivy League school before you are graced with the moral and legal authority to declare what is or is not "fair." But personally, I find nothing "fair" about the state stepping in and claiming large chunks of it just because it can, or because someone thinks that it's only "fair" if they do so.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

SJHovey said:
I guess what it comes down to for me is this. If Buffett or Gates or Zuckerberg or whoever wants to leave a zillion dollars to their family, give it to charity or snort it up their nose in cocaine, I don't really care. It's their money. They earned it. I find nothing unfair about their kids getting a "head start" (do we really refer to inheriting a billion dollars as only a "head start"?) over the rest of us.

I guess you have to go to an Ivy League school before you are graced with the moral and legal authority to declare what is or is not "fair." But personally, I find nothing "fair" about the state stepping in and claiming large chunks of it just because it can, or because someone thinks that it's only "fair" if they do so.
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Meh. There are as many meanings of "fair" as, to paraphrase Thoreau, radii from the center of a circle. I just want all the teams to start each April at 0-0. I'm not limiting the winning streak you can go on during the season. Win your division by 30, go wild. You just don't get to pass those games ahead on to the next season.
 
Kepler said:
Meh. There are as many meanings of "fair" as, to paraphrase Thoreau, radii from the center of a circle. I just want all the teams to start each April at 0-0. I'm not limiting the winning streak you can go on during the season. Win your division by 30, go wild. You just don't get to pass those games ahead on to the next season.
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I don't think what is fair really matters. What is best for the country counts a lot more in my opinion.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Drew S. said:
I don't think what is fair really matters. What is best for the country counts a lot more in my opinion.
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Well, what is best for the country is to reduce inequality. Our bifurcation into a tiny rich class and a huge poor class, which began when the top rates were cut and then social programs were scaled back and replaced by the explosion of the military budget, is destroying America, just as it did in the 19th and early 20th century until the New Deal reversed it.

We need to repeat the non-violent revolution of 1932. Income redistribution fosters a middle class and the country thrives. Laissez faire fosters a wealthy ruling class (transnational, BTW, not American) and destroys the country.
 
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Kepler said:
Well, what is best for the country is to reduce inequality. Our bifurcation into a tiny rich class and a huge poor class, which began when the top rates were cut and then social programs were scaled back and replaced by the explosion of the military budget, is destroying America, just as it did in the 19th and early 20th century until the New Deal reversed it.

We need to repeat the non-violent revolution of 1932. Income redistribution fosters a middle class and the country thrives. Laissez faire fosters a wealthy ruling class (transnational, BTW, not American) and destroys the country.
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Agree, and the higher percentage of money that is earned through wages versus investment is much better for the country. I wouldn't support the extremely high rates you proposed last night, but think somewhere around 40% over $5MM would do nicely. The good thing with the estate tax is it encourages people not to just sit on money too.

The thing I would like to see even more than the estate tax is a much higher minimum wage. I know it's not a perfect solution but I think it would get a lot of people off the couch. Businesses look at it as a negative but I think for a lot of them it could help them revenue wise enough to offset any increase in expenses.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Drew S. said:
The thing I would like to see even more than the estate tax is a much higher minimum wage. I know it's not a perfect solution but I think it would get a lot of people off the couch. Businesses look at it as a negative but I think for a lot of them it could help them revenue wise enough to offset any increase in expenses.
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Businesses that employ people for minimum wage also tend to have them for customers (Restaurants, Retail, Service, etc). The increase in purchasing power for their customers would more than offset the wages increase. Henry Ford knew he had to pay his workers enough for them to buy his cars.

Another huge improvement would be the unionization of service labor. If the entire McDonald's workforce belong to a union, they have power when they negotiate for wages and benefits. As it stands employers play workers off against each other and it's a race to the bottom.
 
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SJHovey said:
I guess what it comes down to for me is this. If Buffett or Gates or Zuckerberg or whoever wants to leave a zillion dollars to their family, give it to charity or snort it up their nose in cocaine, I don't really care. It's their money. They earned it. I find nothing unfair about their kids getting a "head start" (do we really refer to inheriting a billion dollars as only a "head start"?) over the rest of us.

I guess you have to go to an Ivy League school before you are graced with the moral and legal authority to declare what is or is not "fair." But personally, I find nothing "fair" about the state stepping in and claiming large chunks of it just because it can, or because someone thinks that it's only "fair" if they do so.
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Once you have money it's easier to make more money. In your world the top 0.1% will accumulate more and more wealth (even worse than now). Welcome to the oligarchy.
 
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