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POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

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Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

geezer said:
The big benefit of keeping small family farms going isn't to frustrate your desire to "get back" at people who are better off than you. Just put aside the jealousy for a second and think about biological diversity, pollution, climate change, and genetic engineering. It benefits everyone.
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Who do I want running 2000 or more acres in Steele County ND:
- my cousin who lives on it with his family and drinks well water from the land, or
- ArcherDanielsMonsantoBayerDuPontDowCargill via cell phone apps while lounging in the Bahamas
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

bigblue_dl said:
Yeah that shift has already happened, but another one is coming.
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Drone tractors.
Drone harvesters.
We'll need mechanics to keep it running (until SkyNet finishes drone maintenance machines) but few farmers, and they'll be "corporate agronomy specialists."

Heck, already today farmers joke they're only in the cab to turn the machines around at the ends of the field.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

The Sicatoka said:
Heck, already today farmers joke they're only in the cab to turn the machines around at the ends of the field.
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Its true. The technology these days is incredible, and also very beneficial. Using these kinds of tech reduces waste, eliminates excess fertilizer and chemical usage, reduces fuel consumption and reduces expenses. New technology is better for the environment and the bottom line.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

A good piece on the potential for this being an inescapable cycle, at least for the forseeable future.
 
geezer said:
Traditionally they are supporting 3 generations at once, who were all living and working there full time.
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That hasn't been true for generations. This country is 85% urban, and rural towns get smaller every year. We should not be basing 21st century tax policy on 19th century practices.

The big benefit of keeping small family farms going isn't to frustrate your desire to "get back" at people who are better off than you.
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The estate tax isn't about getting back at anyone, so you can shove your revenge fantasies up your butt.

The estate tax is about placing Joe the farmer's son on the same level as Jill the doctor's daughter and Jimmy, the kid of two meth addicts. Let's say Jimmy wants to be a farmer when he grows up. Why should Joe get a $10,000,000 head start (on top of the head start of not having meth addicts for parents) on Jimmy? Joe hasn't done shiat other than win the birth lottery in this scenario. His parents may have built a successful farm, but he didn't. And what if Joe doesn't want to farm? Does he still get it tax free?

If Joe works on the farm his adult life, his sweat equity should be compensated in the form of wages and ownership stakes along the way.

And I'm no fan of Monsanto, but that's an anti-trust issue, not an estate tax issue.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/federal-tax-issues/federal-estate-taxes.aspx

Based on simulations using the age distribution of farm operators and standard mortality rates applied to the latest available farm-level survey data (from the 2015 Agricultural Resource Management Survey (ARMS)), it is estimated that only 1.7 percent of farm estates would be required to file an estate tax return for the 2016 tax year. A much smaller share of estates (0.42 percent) is estimated to owe any Federal estate tax. For the 2016 simulation, 38,328 estates were estimated to be created out of a total of 2.1 million family farms.
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Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

bigblue_dl said:
Its true. The technology these days is incredible, and also very beneficial. Using these kinds of tech reduces waste, eliminates excess fertilizer and chemical usage, reduces fuel consumption and reduces expenses. New technology is better for the environment and the bottom line.
Click to expand...

There comes a line, though, when technology actually helps your life, or makes you unnecessary. When does technology get to a point where the machines win? Will humans be able to expand their minds to keep up like they did in the Industrial Revolution, despite all of the poisoning done by the globalists today?
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

unofan said:
The estate tax is about placing Joe the farmer's son on the same level as Jill the doctor's daughter and Jimmy, the kid of two meth addicts. Let's say Jimmy wants to be a farmer when he grows up. Why should Joe get a $10,000,000 head start (on top of the head start of not having meth addicts for parents) on Jimmy? Joe hasn't done shiat other than win the birth lottery in this scenario. His parents may have built a successful farm, but he didn't. And what if Joe doesn't want to farm? Does he still get it tax free?

If Joe works on the farm his adult life, his sweat equity should be compensated in the form of wages and ownership stakes along the way.
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I'll give this a shot but caveat I've thought about it for all of 5 seconds. Part of the work Joe's parents did was improving the soil by good management of the farm. That's part of what they are passing on to their kids. It's analogous to us working to become educated and then passing the benefit of that education on to our kids who then become educated. I know this sounds like some 19th century labor theory of value where the soil somehow mixes in the parents' labor, and yeah, I guess it is a little like that. But what I'm saying is when the parents walk away (or die) their value is "lost in the soil."

And now you're going to argue that no, that labor is accounted for in the value of the farm on the market. Maybe that's true.

There's something wrong with your argument, but I haven't found it yet.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

unofan said:
That hasn't been true for generations. This country is 85% urban, and rural towns get smaller every year. We should not be basing 21st century tax policy on 19th century practices.
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So dad and I farming grandma's land (her retirement income source) was just a "hasn't been true for generations" portion of my youth? Good to know; thanks for that clarification.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

FlagDUDE08 said:
There comes a line, though, when technology actually helps your life, or makes you unnecessary. When does technology get to a point where the machines win? Will humans be able to expand their minds to keep up like they did in the Industrial Revolution, despite all of the poisoning done by the globalists today?
Click to expand...

John Henry was a steel driving man, oh boy,
John Henry was a steel driving man.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

This happened on Fox News Last Night.

PAUL RYAN: I think the president is giving us the leadership we need to get the country back on the right track. […]

SEAN HANNITY: Any big disagreement you have with him?

PAUL RYAN: No.
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The Sicatoka said:
So dad and I farming grandma's land (her retirement income source) was just a "hasn't been true for generations" portion of my youth? Good to know; thanks for that clarification.
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It is not still traditional for 3 generations to live under the same roof. In a country of 300,000,000, it happens, but it is neither commonplace nor a regular enough occurrence to constitute tradition.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

The Sicatoka said:
So dad and I farming grandma's land (her retirement income source) was just a "hasn't been true for generations" portion of my youth? Good to know; thanks for that clarification.
Click to expand...

Meh, it's part of Agenda 21 that everyone's pushed into cities. Let unofan have the UN wet dream; the rest of us will live in reality.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

bigblue_dl said:
Good farm land is not cheap. We have obviously expanded from the farm my grandpa grew up on, it was needed in order to stay solvent. A 200 acre farm will not support a family anymore. We now have about 2000 acres and the current valuation of land in our county is about $7000 an acre. Add in probably about $5m work of equipment needed to run that land, and the value of buildings and other structures needed to run a farm, and it is worth well over $10 million. If we downsized significantly, there would no longer be enough income to remain profitable.
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If that's the case, then you should be following unofan's advice, and incorporating, or putting into trust, or whatever you need to do to minimize that tax penalty.

You know Trumpy would.
 
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