POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

[Armadillo]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

I didn't either until Scalia died.

I'm still not sure that the solicitor general gets to overturn the Supreme Court.

I don't think he "overturned" the Court per se, rather admitted the DOJ was in error, and the case should not be used as precedent.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Did Trump just lose the south?

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1627498

This was the NASCAR comment I was referring to if y'all missed it.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

David Frum is one of my favorite writers at The Atlantic.

Frum is one of the valuable few conservatives who is displaying lucidity and integrity at a moment when it is desperately needed from The Right.

I first encountered him as a frequent guest on Bill Maher's HBO show Real Time, where I disagreed with nearly everything he had to say about policy. Right after this election, though, he articulated perfectly an idea I had been having -- that one thing this election has taught me is that The Establishment, for all its flaws and all the criticism it deserves, does have real and necessary value.

An especially poignant passage in the article DX linked -

The oft-debated question “Is Donald Trump a fascist?” is not easy to answer. There are certainly fascistic elements to him...Yet there’s also something incongruous and even absurd about applying the sinister label of fascist to Donald Trump...

Perhaps this is the wrong question. Perhaps the better question about Trump is not “What is he?” but “What will he do to us?”

By all early indications, the Trump presidency will corrode public integrity and the rule of law—and also do untold damage to American global leadership, the Western alliance, and democratic norms around the world. The damage has already begun, and it will not be soon or easily undone. Yet exactly how much damage is allowed to be done is an open question—the most important near-term question in American politics. It is also an intensely personal one, for its answer will be determined by the answer to another question: What will you do? And you? And you?

Of course we want to believe that everything will turn out all right. In this instance, however, that lovely and customary American assumption itself qualifies as one of the most serious impediments to everything turning out all right. If the story ends without too much harm to the republic, it won’t be because the dangers were imagined, but because citizens resisted.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Frum is one of the valuable few conservatives who is displaying lucidity and integrity at a moment when it is desperately needed from The Right.

I first encountered him as a frequent guest on Bill Maher's HBO show Real Time, where I disagreed with nearly everything he had to say about policy. Right after this election, though, he articulated perfectly an idea I had been having -- that one thing this election has taught me is that The Establishment, for all its flaws and all the criticism it deserves, does have real and necessary value.

An especially poignant passage in the article DX linked -

We desperately need some moderate republicans to stand up. Besides McCain

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

I don't know if I could associate myself with someone who is so pearly in to masochism.

I barely tolerate him. He's good for a few laughs, and that's about it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Dont worry guys...we are mere hours away from joe and Sicatoka posting articles from real news sources like The Washington Examiner that will tell us that Obaama did all these things as did Clinton, Abraham Lincoln and probably George Washington. This is obvious liberal bias

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Frum is one of the valuable few conservatives who is displaying lucidity and integrity at a moment when it is desperately needed from The Right.

I first encountered him as a frequent guest on Bill Maher's HBO show Real Time, where I disagreed with nearly everything he had to say about policy. Right after this election, though, he articulated perfectly an idea I had been having -- that one thing this election has taught me is that The Establishment, for all its flaws and all the criticism it deserves, does have real and necessary value.

An especially poignant passage in the article DX linked -

I think that's where I first encountered him. Now I enjoy reading his articles and watching him on Face the Nation.

 

[unofan]

I didn't either until Scalia died.

I'm still not sure that the solicitor general gets to overturn the Supreme Court.

They don't. This is akin to someone winning a lawsuit, then admitting years later they shouldn't have. The case is still in the books, and the courts can still use it as precedent.

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

If I'm working for the Executive, I give him/her my advice. The Executive then makes up his mind and I implement the policy. If I feel I can't, I resign. You don't backstab your boss.

Her boss that she swore an oath to was a piece of paper that says to protect against discrimination on the basis of religion from anyone, up to and including the president, you ignorant ****.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

The answer in such a case is for the AG to resign and go full-frontal...

Isn't that basically what she did? I doubt she had any illusions as to what her fate would be.
She had the courage of her convictions, and I think she deserves our respect for that.

To go back the Atlantic article again, Frum, while acknowledging the legal avenues and authorities available to the president, points out:

That statement is true, and it points to a deeper truth: The United States may be a nation of laws, but the proper functioning of the law depends upon the competence and integrity of those charged with executing it.

He goes on to say at the end of the piece, amidst a list of duties We The People must embrace:

Honor civil servants who are fired or forced to resign because they defied improper orders.

I agree.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Her boss that she swore an oath to was a piece of paper that says to protect against discrimination on the basis of religion from anyone, up to and including the president, you ignorant ****.

Integrity isn't as cool when it comes from the left

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Very possible, but this opinion piece from Jonathan Adler at the Washington Post makes the following argument:

First, the statement seems to indicate that the executive order was reviewed by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, which apparently concluded that the executive order was lawful. Second, Yates does not claim that she cannot defend the executive order because it is unconstitutional or because the Justice Department would be unable to offer good-faith arguments in defense of its legality. To the contrary, Yates claims she is ordering the Justice Department not to defend the executive order because it is not “wise or just.” This is quite significant. I am not aware of any instance in which the Justice Department has refused to defend a presumptively lawful executive action on this basis.

I don't buy his analysis at the moment - how many times can one "infer" facts while not providing a single substantive reference in one paragraph?

And for the last time Brent - not one single person here has called you out for saying a President has a legal right to make legal decisions. Stop playing Bob the Martyr/Don Quixote.

 

[joecct]

Her boss that she swore an oath to was a piece of paper that says to protect against discrimination on the basis of religion from anyone, up to and including the president, you ignorant ****.

Indonesians (largest Muslim country) can still come in without a problem. So can folks from Saudi Arabia. However, a Coptic Christian from Iran (if there are any left) is temporarily banned.

So Maize, lose the rage, take a deep breath, and read the EO and research the precedents and underlying law.

Don't let your hate for tD spoil the facts.

 

[joecct]

Dont worry guys...we are mere hours away from joe and Sicatoka posting articles from real news sources like The Washington Examiner that will tell us that Obaama did all these things as did Clinton, Abraham Lincoln and probably George Washington. This is obvious liberal bias

A source that you disagree with is still a source.

You might want to read "The Closing of the American Mind" by Allan Bloom. It's 30 years old now, but it is still relevant today.

 

[unofan]

A source that you disagree with is still a source.

Of course, the ones you refer to belong in the fiction section...

 

[aparch]

Trump lost NASCAR. Think about that. Whoa. WHOA.

Nascar's been losing popularity for most of this decade. It was gaining through the 90's, blew up in 2000, and sort of hit their high water mark around 2010.

Nascar is becoming more of a rich man, intellectual sport (I am no way comparing it to Indy Car or F1) than it is the southern redneck sport it once was. Is it still popular in the south? Sure, but one driver (a popular one with a large fan base) isn't going to sway their opinion about Trump or immigration.

This is the sport where someone painted Trump for President on their sponsor less race truck, and other team owners chipped in to pay for the truck.

 

[joecct]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

As Don Corleone said, "It's business, not personal." tD is Sonny. He needs to be Michael.

I will ask my acquaintances on the left - When is the Coup? That's where you're headed and is that what you want?

 

[jerphisch]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Indonesians (largest Muslim country) can still come in without a problem. So can folks from Saudi Arabia. However, a Coptic Christian from Iran (if there are any left) is temporarily banned.

So Maize, lose the rage, take a deep breath, and read the EO and research the precedents and underlying law.

Don't let your hate for tD spoil the facts.

Perhaps you should give Yates' letter a read, understand the reasoning she puts forth, and give your woody for tD a chance to go down.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Perhaps you should give Yates' letter a read, understand the reasoning she puts forth, and give your woody for tD a chance to go down.

The whole, "if there are any left" comment was very telling.

His woody ain't going nowhere.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Indonesians (largest Muslim country) can still come in without a problem. So can folks from Saudi Arabia. However, a Coptic Christian from Iran (if there are any left) is temporarily banned.

So Maize, lose the rage, take a deep breath, and read the EO and research the precedents and underlying law.

Don't let your hate for tD spoil the facts.

Except that don has already stated that the Christians in Iraq will get special priority to get into the US. As if their struggle is more than the opposing sides within Islam.

None the less, that statement, as well as Giuliani pointing out that they need to have a legal way to prevent Mulsims from getting in- don't be a fool and pretend that this is not a ban on Islam.

If it were really about safety, we'd be banning people from Saudi Arabia- since that's the source country for a gross majority of American's who have been killed at the hands of terrorists.

Facts. They are not facts- they are made up just to get his own way.

Besides, what in the world are you so afraid of that we need this travel restriction?? More Americans will die in car accidents TODAY than the last two terrorist actions in the US combined. More Americans will die this month due to preventable diseases that a better health care system will cover than all Americans who died at the hands of terrorists.

If we are really interested in saving American lives, our efforts are totally misplaced based on how people die.