POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Right so for example shouting racial epithets toward a crowd of people over the course of a protest... might not be legally protected free speech? If it is I'd argue it shouldn't be.

Yes it is and yes it should be. Just saying a racist term over and over again is not harassment. Now if you said "I am going to kill all [racist term] right now" to that group that is a threat.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

So you will need to pick a side- do you side with people wanting to take away rights from people they deem not worthy, or the side of equal rights to all.

Given that people have fought and died for the principle of freedom and equality over the years (hint- we have FIVE holidays celebrating them), it seems pretty natural that people want to fight for this country.

The ironic thing about your position- we spend a lot of effort (not real money) honoring people who go out and kill other people across the world who we think are threatening our country, but when it comes to doing the same here within our borders, that is bad.

What's up with that?

I've been pretty clear that I want equal rights for all, and that includes people I don't agree with. In this case, the hate groups waving their flags and having parades. Until (and if) the laws change, I will vocally defend those rights.

Edit: To add, "take away rights from people they deem not worthy" does go more ways than one.

 

[Drew S.]

I think most people *want* to be decent people, too.

But we all have different levels of what decent means. Somehow, Arpaio got re-elected many times- so that's one level of "decent", dump got elected- that's a different level of "decent" to me.

The "decent" issue always comes up when people try to justify some kind of bias that been going on for many years. joe does that for the LBGT group. Brent does a great job of trying to show his oppression is somehow equal to minorities, etc. There's a lot of that going on for this board.

I don't doubt that they all want to be "decent", but relative to everyone being very equal, and treated equally to the laws, law enforcement, and the economy- we've got a long way to go for the "decent" line to really live up.

It's hard from thousands of miles away to understand exactly what was going on in Arizona. I think it's unfair to criticize people who voted for Arpaio. There could have been a lot of people who disliked him but voted for him anyway because they thought he was making a difference on illegal immigration.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Yes it is and yes it should be. Just saying a racist term over and over again is not harassment. Now if you said "I am going to kill all [racist term] right now" to that group that is a threat.

Calling the other side of a protest various slurs isn't harassment? Also gonna disagree that it should be protected.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

God I want to take all the clowns who said "Ivanka Trump is a Liberal" and just slap em...

It's their right to say it and violence isn't the answer.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

I'm not sure speech that is obviously trying to incite *something* in another group is something we need to protect.

Going to result in a lot of deleted posts around here.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

It's hard from thousands of miles away to understand exactly what was going on in Arizona. I think it's unfair to criticize people who voted for Arpaio. There could have been a lot of people who disliked him but voted for him anyway because they thought he was making a difference on illegal immigration.

Yeah it's so hard to read things and understand them.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

I've been pretty clear that I want equal rights for all, and that includes people I don't agree with. In this case, the hate groups waving their flags and having parades. Until (and if) the laws change, I will vocally defend those rights.

Edit: To add, "take away rights from people they deem not worthy" does go more ways than one.

Thank you so much for illustrating my point. Everyone certainly has a different level of what they deem as "decent".

People like you who say that you want equal rights, but then qualify that drive me crazy.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

So you will need to pick a side-

It's not a binary argument in the way you are trying to frame it. The correct side is peaceful, non-violent protest against any perceived and real civil or moral threats of an individual's choosing. Suppression of speech, and especially violent suppression of speech, is an enormous danger to free society.

Right so for example shouting racial epithets toward a crowd of people over the course of a protest... might not be legally protected free speech? If it is I'd argue it shouldn't be.

No. In most states criminal harrassment, (somewhat like assault) requires a credible threat to you or your family's safety. Shouting racial epithets at a person, while disgusting and offensive, does not threaten their safety. I'd guess that you're thinking that this sort of thing is incitement to violence. For example when some nutbar hears all this and then goes and acts on it. But I disagree that in most all of these cases that is a proper argument. We don't hold BLM legally responsible for the deaths of the officers in Dallas despite the fact that they were directly calling for "pigs to fry like bacon", etc. We don't hold anyone else legally responsible for calling Scalise "Nazi scum" after that nutbar shot him at baseball practice. Your right to call me out as a Nazi pig if you so choose is inextricably tied to these douchbags right to spout awful disgusting and offensive things. Mein Kampf is available through your local library as is The Essential Ghandi. That is the way it needs to be in a free and open society.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Going to result in a lot of deleted posts around here.

Funny, but also a good point. Where's the line of incitement? So people here post obvious bait, and people in a crowd shouting at each other do the same. What constitutes a credible threat -- something between the pimply faced kid safe behind the anonymity of a forum mewling about BLM being "thugs" and the paramilitary psycho in Charlottesville advocating a return to slavery because "those people can't manage their own affairs"?

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

It's hard from thousands of miles away to understand exactly what was going on in Arizona. I think it's unfair to criticize people who voted for Arpaio. There could have been a lot of people who disliked him but voted for him anyway because they thought he was making a difference on illegal immigration.

LOL- so it's ok to sacrifice the rights and due processes of US citizens so that we can make a difference in illegal immigration. Especially when it's 100% out of the jurisdiction of the local municipalities.

That's pathetic.

Again, you point out very clearly that most of us would not spend any effort defending YOUR rights to bear arms, since you are so unwilling to stand up for other's rights.

Once again, a new level of "decent". Sacrifice some individual rights for the masses....

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Ok, good to know what the legal definition of harassment is, thanks for that. I don't think that type of speech, particularly as it pertains to a protest situation like the ones we've been seeing, should be protected, but I get why people don't want to see limits imposed on free speech in any form.

As for the "fry em like bacon" thing that's clearly a reference to the electric chair and legal retribution and goes along with their message of wanting cops to be held criminally responsible for unlawful shootings.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

It's not a binary argument in the way you are trying to frame it. The correct side is peaceful, non-violent protest against any perceived and real civil or moral threats of an individual's choosing. Suppression of speech, and especially violent suppression of speech, is an enormous danger to free society.

Well, except when it's OUTSIDE of the country, then it's ok to kill people who are a threat.

Do you not see that hypocrisy?

The side is for equal rights for all instances or not. You choose. It's not about choosing violence or not- so stop framing it like that- that's 100% not what I said.

The "free speech" you speak of does have consequences. You can't speech to incite violence and pretend that you are in the right when the intended violence starts. That's weaker than weak.

Say want you want.

The only thing is that the GOVERNMENT can't stop you.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

It's not a binary argument in the way you are trying to frame it. The correct side is peaceful, non-violent protest against any perceived and real civil or moral threats of an individual's choosing. Suppression of speech, and especially violent suppression of speech, is an enormous danger to free society.

If people have no weapons then they ought to be permitted to say any moronic sh-t that occurs to their rat-infested brains.

But is marching around with weapons a threat? I think so; the gun fondlers don't. These f-cks are looking for a fight. So are these f-cks. I have no problem at all denying both those groups a permit or putting them in a "protest pit" 100 yards in all directions from anybody who doesn't want to be near them. They're not in the constructive tradition of political action -- they're just small dicks without an ounce of sense or perspective.

The issue isn't the speech, it's the weapons.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Going to result in a lot of deleted posts around here.

Ok.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

LOL- so it's ok to sacrifice the rights and due processes of US citizens so that we can make a difference in illegal immigration. Especially when it's 100% out of the jurisdiction of the local municipalities.

That's pathetic.

Again, you point out very clearly that most of us would not spend any effort defending YOUR rights to bear arms, since you are so unwilling to stand up for other's rights.

Once again, a new level of "decent". Sacrifice some individual rights for the masses....

It's too bad there isn't anything else in the Constitution besides the 2nd Amendment.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

If people have no weapons then they ought to be permitted to say any moronic sh-t that occurs to their rat-infested brains.

But is marching around with weapons a threat? I think so; the gun fondlers don't. These f-cks are looking for a fight. So are these f-cks.

The issue isn't the speech, it's the weapons.

Yeah this is the other part of my original post that people tend to overlook. You might be legally allowed to open carry in most situations but at a heated protest doing so definitely stifles others' free speech, it's pretty much impossible to argue otherwise. Even if they weren't hurling slurs and what not.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

As for the "fry em like bacon" thing that's clearly a reference to the electric chair and legal retribution and goes along with their message of wanting cops to be held criminally responsible for unlawful shootings.

Please... you think everyone gets that reference or reads that the same way?

Most young people these days may not even be aware of the electric chair since executions have been done by lethal injection for so long.

Your bias makes it "clear" to you and to you alone.

You can't speak for all others.


BLM should not be held responsible legally (if they said that), but they certainly aren't helping the situation with language like that.

Say "Cops should be held legally responsible" if that's what you mean.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.18 - Who Run Derpertown? McMasterBlaster Run Derpertown.

Please... you think everyone gets that reference or reads that the same way?

Most young people these days may not even be aware of the electric chair since executions have been done by lethal injection for so long.

Your bias makes it "clear" to you and to you alone.

You can't speak for all others.


BLM should not be held responsible legally (if they said that), but they certainly aren't helping the situation with language like that.

Say "Cops should be held legally responsible" if that's what you mean.

Meh, it's pretty obvious what is meant to anyone who has half a brain. I guess it's possible people don't know about the electric chair but that seems like concern trolling. The only people getting offended by this are the usual suspects who are pout-raging.

 

[Drew S.]

LOL- so it's ok to sacrifice the rights and due processes of US citizens so that we can make a difference in illegal immigration. Especially when it's 100% out of the jurisdiction of the local municipalities.

That's pathetic.

Again, you point out very clearly that most of us would not spend any effort defending YOUR rights to bear arms, since you are so unwilling to stand up for other's rights.

Once again, a new level of "decent". Sacrifice some individual rights for the masses....

Were any US citizens illegally detained? I still haven't gotten a clear answer on that. I support all US citizens' rights.