What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Wisko McBadgerton said:
One of the things I was thinking about in this whole monuments and symbols thing, is appropriation. For example, a meaningless cartoon frog has been turned into a symbol of racism, I think, if I understand correctly, on purpose. And while hate groups have clung to their to their symbols, they do have a history of appropriating new ones from time to time, and by doing so, make them something that the rest of us have the desire to suppress and destroy. As an example, perhaps if I were a Nazi KKK whack job, I'd consider adopting Jefferson or Washington as "freedom loving slave owners" or some such, and hold my next rally at the Jefferson Memorial. There has been controversy surrounding Jefferson in the past and I believe just this last week, Al Sharpton advocated perhaps de-funding his memorial in DC. Racists attempting to appropriate Jefferson would probably find some success in creating further division, which is, of course, one of their chief aims. But perhaps ultimately we'd say, yes, Jefferson was a slave owner, that's offensive and he must go. Or perhaps not. My point is that it there is something inherently wrong with Nazis having some measure of power to adopt a particular symbol, and in reaction, the rest of us then feeling the natural desire to crush whatever it may be. I don't like that they get to pick and we respond, if that makes sense.

I think Kanye put the Confederate flag on a tour a few years back in some attempt to re-appropriate that symbol. Kanye's kind of a weird dude at times, but I kind of liked his reaction to it, even though he took a ton of flack over it.
Click to expand...

That is a good point, except in this instance the Nazis and other White Terrorist Groups like the KKK have sort of allied together. Many of these symbols werent appropriated by those groups they were created by them in some capacity. (or at least in like minded beliefs) The symbols had those connotations before the Nazis started using them, the Nazis just gave them a bigger banner to fly under.

Your Jefferson point is a very good one as well though again to many people Jefferson isnt seen as anything but a Slave Raping Rich White Dude (in many ways a valid opinion) so to them it wouldnt really be about the Nazis appropriating Jefferson it would the two ideas merging. It isnt a very big step from being a White Slave owner who raped his workers to being a White Supremacist...
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

The Decider Made His Decision About Afghanistan

I love how Mattis called it a "rigorous review". It sounds like a bunch of people told him his options and he played "eeny meeny". The scary part though:

Reuters said:
One U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Trump's top national security aides are backing adding between 3,000 and 5,000 troops and allowing them to embed with Afghan forces closer to combat.
Click to expand...
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Handyman said:
There is always a small group. They arent the "Alt Left" they are just ********s. Just like there is no "Alt Right" they are just racist buttholes.

When you come up with names like those you are rationalizing them and legitimizing them. You are making them part of something they arent. Just call them what they are and segregate them from the group.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Dunno if you read back, but others didn't want to label the "alt-left" as such, and I had asked what to call them; so from this point on I will simply refer to them (and the alt-right) as "left" and "right." :)
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Handyman said:
That is a good point, except in this instance the Nazis and other White Terrorist Groups like the KKK have sort of allied together. Many of these symbols werent appropriated by those groups they were created by them in some capacity. (or at least in like minded beliefs) The symbols had those connotations before the Nazis started using them, the Nazis just gave them a bigger banner to fly under.
Click to expand...

It's also correct to point out that people have been upset over the symbolism of statues and flags for a very long time. Mainly because of what you point out- it was the hate groups that originally put them in place. Like the protests against Columbus, this isn't new at all. It's about time these issues are being brought up on national level.

Again, legalized segregation and racial prohibitions has only been illegal for 50 years- which isn't all that long.
 
Brenthoven said:
Fair enough. Dunno if you read back, but others didn't want to label the "alt-left" as such, and I had asked what to call them; so from this point on I will simply refer to them (and the alt-right) as "left" and "right." :)
Click to expand...

Maybe far left and far right? I'm not sure why people get so upset. I use them for clarity and simplicity more than anything else.
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

French Rage said:
Wendy Testaburger is through with Eric Cartman's ****.
Click to expand...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Okay, this is like my favorite thread ever!!, so I wanted to see what it would look like merged with a Ken Burns-ish voice reading. <a href="https://t.co/E2frNNahFH">pic.twitter.com/E2frNNahFH</a></p>— Reetae (@Reetae27) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reetae27/status/899018562647375872">August 19, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Drew S. said:
Maybe far left and far right? I'm not sure why people get so upset. I use them for clarity and simplicity more than anything else.
Click to expand...

Do you really think Neo-Nazis/Facists are really far right? They want national socialism. Not really right. Their other goal is lack of democracy and lack of freedom.

People get upset because labeling and stereotyping is wrong- much like dumps calling the counter protesters troublemakers for the police.

There isn't a similar communist movement like the neo-nazis have. Again, somehow balancing out the "two sides" is incorrect. As incorrect as people assume that republicans support the neo-nazis. The only "republican" giving this white supremacists any room is dump. They are white nationalists. They are not in this for tax cuts to the mega rich.

There's no reason to balance or make an alternate equivalent to these idiots. I don't know anyone who is not an antifa, since they are anti-fascists.
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

alfablue said:
Do you really think Neo-Nazis/Facists are really far right? They want national socialism. Not really right.
Click to expand...

National socialism is absolutely a right-wing ideology. The plutes combine with reactionary forces that want to control women, enforce conservative sexual prejudices, suppress intellectuals, wage war, and oppress religious and racial minorities. All of these are rightwing extremist aims.

Don't let the term "socialism" fool you. It's as fitting as the DPRK using the term "democratic."
 
Last edited:
Kepler said:
National socialism is absolutely a right-wing ideology. The plutes combine with reactionary forces that want to control women, enforce conservative sexual prejudices, suppress intellectuals, wage war, and oppress religious and racial minorities. All of these are rightwing extremist aims.

Don't let the term "socialism" fool you. It's as fitting as the DPRK using the term "democratic."
Click to expand...

Except that it can mean state take over of business they want to control.
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

alfablue said:
Except that it can mean state take over of business they want to control.
Click to expand...

But business elites control the government so it's just another scam to transfer public wealth to the well connected. A.k.a., the right.
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Kepler said:
But business elites control the government so it's just another scam to transfer public wealth to the well connected. A.k.a., the right.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

But there should still be a point of questioning the need to balance the morons. Really- who would not oppose white supremacists? Has anyone here spoken positively about these idiots?

So why do we need to have an opposite oppose them? All of us should be.

Is there a communist movement? Maybe, but they are not the ones out demonstrating. Or is there an anarchist group? Sure- we've seen them at G8 conferences.

Still- why do we assume that THEY are the ones counter protesting the racists? Based on the response- it's should be a lot of democrats and republicans out there with a robust opposition to fascism/white supremacy/etc.
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

alfablue said:
Is there a communist movement? Maybe, but they are not the ones out demonstrating. Or is there an anarchist group? Sure- we've seen them at G8 conferences.

Still- why do we assume that THEY are the ones counter protesting the racists? Based on the response- it's should be a lot of democrats and republicans out there with a robust opposition to fascism/white supremacy/etc.
Click to expand...

Communists are leftwing wackjobs but they don't want to kill non-Communists. Anarchists aren't left or right, they're their own thing. And while some are violent, others aren't. "Smash the State" doesn't imply "Smash your face."

The Klan and Neo-Nazis are by definition violent. Violence and murder are essential characteristics of their ideology.
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Kepler said:
The opposite of A, rightwing wackjobs isn't B, leftwing wackjobs.

The opposite of A, rightwing wackjobs is Not A, everyone else who isn't a rightwing wackjob.
Click to expand...

As with a few other posters, I just don't see the need or desire to have an "alt-left" who is in opposition to this "alt-right". If you are really not a racists, you, too, are in opposition to these morons. I don't know anyone who is for fascism, so all are antifa, too.

Some people are more willing to engage in violence than others. That's just part of being a human. So some of the non-alt-right are willing to fight them directly. Big deal.

There are far more than enough Republican who came out and more than denounced those guys to see that this is a very bi-partisan issue. Unless, of course, you actually agree with them.
 
alfablue said:
I don't know anyone who is not an antifa, since they are anti-fascists.
Click to expand...

Everyone is anti-fascism, yes (every sane person). Capital-A Antifa is an actual organized group using that label as a cover for promoting violence, murder, and destruction of property to enforce pretended "progressive" ideals. Look up the Berkeley riots, a guy named Bernstein, and the cop murders. These are not people a normal anti-fascist would want to identify with, any more than your average socialist is a Nazi. They're scum.
 
Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Since Henry Ford was a rabid anti Semite, should Ford Motor Company be shut down?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top