POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

What else is he going to say? He'd be burned at the stake if he said anything negative about the alt-left. Part of it was taking the alt-right crowd out, but a lot of it too me looked like alt-left looking to have a confrontation with the police.

The rally reinforced my views on what is happening. You basically have three groups; people who strictly oppose nazis and are there for the right reason, alt-right, and alt-left. The first group are wonderful people who we are lucky to have in this country. The latter two should be denounced by everyone else who isn't part of them.

Too bad this is not a teaching medical facility. We could all gather around and take notes on classic symptoms of confirmation bias from a patient who is a near goner.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

*ahem* THERE IS NO ALT LEFT.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

What else is he going to say? He'd be burned at the stake if he said anything negative about the alt-left. Part of it was taking the alt-right crowd out, but a lot of it too me looked like alt-left looking to have a confrontation with the police.

The rally reinforced my views on what is happening. You basically have three groups; people who strictly oppose nazis and are there for the right reason, alt-right, and alt-left. The first group are wonderful people who we are lucky to have in this country. The latter two should be denounced by everyone else who isn't part of them.

He should not have called the counter protesters "anti-police agitators". They were not that, by a HUGE margin.

And since that was the first quote- that's what he meant. I totally don't buy his denouncement of the hate groups. We are way beyond the BS- he want's their support.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

*ahem* THERE IS NO ALT LEFT.

I honestly dunno what to call them. Extremist left? Ones who are looking to (probably) violently oppose the alt-right? The ones that are NOT using common sense to oppose the alt-right? If there's a different general media-friendly label (like alt-left), I'll gladly call them that.

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

I honestly dunno what to call them. Extremist left? Ones who are looking to (probably) violently oppose the alt-right? The ones that are NOT using common sense to oppose the alt-right? If there's a different general media-friendly label (like alt-left), I'll gladly call them that.

I may be mistaken, but weren't the alt-right defined mostly by their positions on social and foreign policy issues? What beliefs do you attribute to those you would call alt-left?

edit: Since I have only a vague understanding, I'll play first.

Alt-right: Climate denying, wall building, muslim excluding, gay bashing, evolution denying, bible toting, infowars watching, protectionist, bomb-them-or-ignore-them-but-don't-negotiate-with-them white male wearing a sleeveless t.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

I may be mistaken, but weren't the alt-right defined mostly by their positions on social and foreign policy issues? What beliefs do you attribute to those you would call alt-left?

The ones that are out to use any means to stop the alt-right, including violence. Antifa is a label unfairly used at times. There's the peaceful members of the Antifa movement, and then there are the extremists.

So, if there is a different label to be used, I'll gladly use it. I will not lump "the left" in with the "alt-left," that I can promise you.

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

The ones that are out to use any means to stop the alt-right, including violence. Antifa is a label unfairly used at times. There's the peaceful members of the Antifa movement, and then there are the extremists.

So, if there is a different label to be used, I'll gladly use it. I will not lump "the left" in with the "alt-left," that I can promise you.

So the term arose out of these protests. I mean, we are all antifascists, aren't we?

Don't get me wrong: those who are using violence to stop the hate worshipers are being just plain stupid. But there is no equivalence between the neo-nazis and white supremacists and those trying to shout them down, and the hate groups and their supporters are doing just that.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

So the term arose out of these protests. I mean, we are all antifascists, aren't we?

Don't get me wrong: those who are using violence to stop the hate worshipers are being just plain stupid. But there is no equivalence between the neo-nazis and white supremacists and those trying to shout them down.

And that's where we're trying to figure out the extreme leftists' label. And those who are fine with violence against the neo-Nazis have stooped to the neos' level, IMO. They haven't murdered anyone, yet, but I don't think it's out of their realm of thought.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

There is no point I'm trying to make. I'm interested in a healthy discussion about monuments/memorials/etc.

Well, why don't you stop fretting yourself over hypotheticals, and deal with the here and now.

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

And that's where we're trying to figure out the extreme leftists' label. And those who are fine with violence against the neo-Nazis have stooped to the neos' level, IMO. They haven't murdered anyone, yet, but I don't think it's out of their realm of thought.

Perhaps, Brent, but most of us see the hate groups themselves creating false equivalencies to distract from their indefensible positions. Trump did it and is being called on it by his own party members, thank Parise.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

You don't have to answer this if you don't want, and there is no hidden agenda here, but keeping Washington/Jefferson, is that due to their relevance in American history, do you think (in terms of the general populace's thoughts, not you personally)?

For me, once that ball is rolling, and it's rolling and it sucks...I don't think we can pick and choose. Once something is set, it's set. Unfortunately, the Confed monuments became more about racism/slavery than being a traitor. To keep.........credibility, for lack of a better term....if racism/slavery is the base requirement for removal of a monument/statue....we're in for some long times ahead.

I appreciate everyone's input, it's good to hear from all sides of the debate. Thank you.

Racism/slavery isn't. It's that these memorials are to people who are known for nothing else except they took up arms and led a rebellion against their country. That's it.

Take any of them. What are they known for? What accomplishments besides what they did in the Civil War? Again, how many George Washington statues in the streets of London?

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Perhaps, Brent, but most of us see the hate groups themselves creating false equivalencies to distract from their indefensible positions. Trump did it and is being called on it by his own party members, thank Parise.

Trump is a racist. I had some doubts before, thought he was just pandering to his voter base, I was sorely mistaken. I tried to see good where there is no good.

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Trump is a racist. I had some doubts before, thought he was just pandering to his voter base, I was sorely mistaken. I tried to see good where there is no good.

I didn't think so at first. I just thought he was a craven opportunist.

The thing is, one group (alt-right) seeks ends that are reprehensible. The alt-left, as you seem to define them, seeks to obtain a good end (stop hate groups) by using the wrong means. There is an important difference there, IMO.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

I didn't think so at first. I just thought he was a craven opportunist.

The thing is, one group (alt-right) seeks ends that are reprehensible. The alt-left, as you seem to define them, seeks to obtain a good end (stop hate groups) by using the wrong means. There is an important difference there, IMO.

That's a good way of putting it.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

Well, it's continuing, submitted without comment, but relevant to my questions in this thread:

http://nbc4i.com/2017/08/19/protesters-call-for-removal-of-christopher-columbus-statue/

 

[Drew S.]

He should not have called the counter protesters "anti-police agitators". They were not that, by a HUGE margin.

And since that was the first quote- that's what he meant. I totally don't buy his denouncement of the hate groups. We are way beyond the BS- he want's their support.

I couldn't agree more on Trump. I was watching on NECN and the counter protestors were mostly well spoken and seemed like decent folk. There was definitely an element of alt-left or whatever who were using the rally as cover to have a go at police.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

I couldn't agree more on Trump. I was watching on NECN and the counter protestors were mostly well spoken and seemed like decent folk. There was definitely an element of alt-left or whatever who were using the rally as cover to have a go at police.

And there will always be that small % of extremists.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

I'm not sure if Trumpy is an out and out racist. I'm sure he does believe that whites are superior, but that's cause he's white, and he's Trumpy. Trumpy can't be inferior.

Which is why he likes the alt-right, and the white supremacists. Cause they like him. And since obviously, they must be smart to like him, then he likes them in return. Cause it's all about Trumpy.

 

[Drew S.]

I'm not sure if Trumpy is an out and out racist. I'm sure he does believe that whites are superior, but that's cause he's white, and he's Trumpy. Trumpy can't be inferior.

Which is why he likes the alt-right, and the white supremacists. Cause they like him. And since obviously, they must be smart to like him, then he likes them in return. Cause it's all about Trumpy.

Does he ever think about anything other than himself? I'd be surprised if he cares very much either way.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.17 - Section 4 of Amendment 25

I'm not sure if Trumpy is an out and out racist. I'm sure he does believe that whites are superior, but that's cause he's white, and he's Trumpy. Trumpy can't be inferior.

Which is why he likes the alt-right, and the white supremacists. Cause they like him. And since obviously, they must be smart to like him, then he likes them in return. Cause it's all about Trumpy.

That's what I was thinking in the beginning...now? I don't. Given his comments (or lack thereof) over the last few months...I think he's racist; kind of like that person who says "I'm not racist, I have black friends!" That type.