POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

You'd be surprised. It's an either/or situation in many cases. It sucks. "YOU DIDN'T VOTE FOR (D)? TYPICAL WHITE MALE [Insert all prejudices]!

It's pretty difficult to dispel those prejudices when 8 times of 10, the shirt fits. Latent homophobia is very much a thing, you can see it on social media regularly - "I'm not a homophobe, but can't they just pipe down and stop forcing it on us?", as if white Christians are somehow the victims of LGBTQ pride. Or more recently and blatantly, posts in support of Trump's transgender military ban with the rationale that "These people have a disease, are weaklings, and don't have what it takes to serve. MURICA! *grunt*"

How many times have you heard a suburban white dude say, "I'm not a racist, but the problem with the blacks is too many irresponsible single mothers..." whilst simultaneously voting R because they think abortion and abstinence-only sex ed are moral evils, and "big gubmint spending on welfare" is the problem? Like it or not, that's latent racism.

If you think I believe that democrats are perfect you are as full of poop as I suspect you are. I find fault with almost every elected politician in Washington and think the vast majority of both parties are there for all the wrong reasons.

This. However, one of those two major parties is clearly more in alignment with the best interests of the vast majority of Americans, in spite of its faults. I'll give you a hint - it isn't the Republicans.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I won't put you in any bin for not voting for Hillary. I think it was misguided maybe, but to me if someone was a bigot they had the perfect candidate in trump. Those who voted 3rd party were not voting for bigots and those who chose to abstain were not likely members of the KKK or Hitler Youth either. My big issue is with people who tended to vote for Democrats but disliked Hillary. I am one of them, but I voted for her knowing that she was qualified to be a president. That I held no high hopes is meaningless because I believe most presidents in our history have been mediocre at best. She would have been functional and a caretaker. People like me in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania should have all been voting for Clinton and had that happened, she'd have won.

That is a point that I cannot argue/debate/etc. Point blank. I didn't want her in the WH, and I also foolishly thought Trump didn't have a chance.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

That is a point that I cannot argue/debate/etc. Point blank. I didn't want her in the WH, and I also foolishly thought Trump didn't have a chance.

That sounds remorseful, Brent. I think you know that you are fractionally at fault. Not a villain, not a bad guy, but you and many other non-voters each played a tiny part in this mess.

Hillary was qualified, Trump was not. One of these things, is not like the others...

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

That sounds remorseful, Brent. I think you know that you are fractionally at fault. Not a villain, not a bad guy, but you and many other non-voters each played a tiny part in this mess.

Hillary was qualified, Trump was not. One of these things, is not like the others...

I cannot argue that. I thought "Heh, Trump, never will make it. Ok, he's at the primary, people will come to their senses.......sh* what's going on?"

But, I still contend that EVERYONE played a part. Even the pro-Hill who (taking some liberty here) refused to listen to the "deplorables" also share the blame. Convert even a small handful....election changes.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

This. However, one of those two major parties is clearly more in alignment with the best interests of the vast majority of Americans, in spite of its faults. I'll give you a hint - it isn't the Republicans.

It's not even alignment with a majority fo me. It's about doing the right thing. Only one party is interested in doing that any more. the Republicans don't even hide it anymore. Be it the outright bigotry, overt racism, and unabashed hatred of the poor.

And the people who vote for them are just as culpable for their platform of hate.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

It's not even alignment with a majority fo me. It's about doing the right thing. Only one party is interested in doing that any more. the Republicans don't even hide it anymore. Be it the outright bigotry, overt racism, and unabashed hatred of the poor.

And the people who vote for them are just as culpable for their platform of hate.

The bizzare thing is half the haters are the white 'poor' who have no idea all the programs they get help from are going to go away. They trust the GOP to fix those ghetto people and haven't figured out they are burning their own house.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

But, I still contend that EVERYONE played a part. Even the pro-Hill who (taking some liberty here) refused to listen to the "deplorables" also share the blame. Convert even a small handful....election changes.

At the end of the day, the greatest amount of blame lies with Hillary and her campaign advisers, spending those last few weeks gallivanting around Georgia and Arizona like she had it in the bag and they were just going to flip those states for a landslide. She needed to be going toe-to-toe with Trump in the Midwest, shoring things up. Barack and Michelle needed to be stumping for Hillary in Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Milwaukee - not Phoenix.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

At the end of the day, the greatest amount of blame lies with Hillary and her campaign advisers, spending those last few weeks gallivanting around Georgia and Arizona like she had it in the bag and they were just going to flip those states for a landslide. She needed to be going toe-to-toe with Trump in the Midwest, shoring things up. Barack and Michelle needed to be stumping for Hillary in Pittsburgh and Detroit, not Phoenix.

Agreed. I mentioned that Rolling Stone (yes, that lefty rag) actually had a decent article about the Dem party and their problems. They were not kind in criticism, and did explain a LOT of what happened/is happening in the Dem party. I recommend it.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

At the end of the day, the greatest amount of blame lies with Hillary and her campaign advisers, spending those last few weeks gallivanting around Georgia and Arizona like she had it in the bag and they were just going to flip those states for a landslide. She needed to be going toe-to-toe with Trump in the Midwest, shoring things up. Barack and Michelle needed to be stumping for Hillary in Michigan, not Phoenix.

Who could predict there are that many stupid people that would fall for an incompetent sociopath? The fault is not Hillary and her advisors. The people who are stupid enough to believe now are the same believers that voted. Hillary could have had Jesus as a right hand man and it wouldn't have been enough to over ride Fox and Friends and the social media blitz of misinformation.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Who could predict there are that many stupid people that would fall for an incompetent sociopath? The fault is not Hillary and her advisors. The people who are stupid enough to believe now are the same believers that voted. Hillary could have had Jesus as a right hand man and it wouldn't have been enough to over ride Fox and Friends and the social media blitz of misinformation.

If Jesus were to appear at Hillary's side, Trump's voters would declare him the Antichrist and start preparing for the End Times.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

If Jesus were to appear at Hillary's side, Trump's voters would declare him the Antichrist and start preparing for the End Times.

Him meaning Jesus or Trump? I assume you mean Jesus.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Who could predict there are that many stupid people that would fall for an incompetent sociopath? The fault is not Hillary and her advisors. The people who are stupid enough to believe now are the same believers that voted. Hillary could have had Jesus as a right hand man and it wouldn't have been enough to over ride Fox and Friends and the social media blitz of misinformation.

When a candidate condemns a good part of the population, you think they are gonna still vote for that candidate? Right or wrong, that was a very bad move.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I assume you mean Jesus.

Yes

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

When a candidate condemns a good part of the population, you think they are gonna still vote for that candidate? Right or wrong, that was a very bad move.

"Deplorables" was not smart politics, but it happened early enough that she could've recovered from it with a sound strategy of shoring up the "Blue Wall" (PA, MI, WI). She lost PA by ~60,000 votes, MI by less than 12,000 votes, and WI by less than 25,000 votes.

OH was a lost cause - she wouldn't have pulled off a 150,000 vote swing in the final 2-3 weeks. However, the other three were salvageable. She blew it though, so here we are.

Jeebus, almost 9 months later we're still analyzing this? Ugh.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Jeebus, almost 9 months later we're still analyzing this? Ugh.

Yeah, I know.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

When a candidate condemns a good part of the population, you think they are gonna still vote for that candidate? Right or wrong, that was a very bad move.

Honestly I think it wouldn't have mattered. They guy is certifiable but he is an evil genious with the media. No matter what he did nothing stuck at the same time he could make Hillary look bad for wanting to breath. It was scary to watch. Listening to news outlets outside of the US they couldn't believe it.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Honestly I think it wouldn't have mattered. They guy is certifiable but he is an evil genious with the media. No matter what he did nothing stuck at the same time he could make Hillary look bad for wanting to breath. It was scary to watch. Listening to news outlets outside of the US they couldn't believe it.

I think it would have. This nation did have a portion of "Anyone but Hill" and if she catered enough to those folks....and staring at Trump as prez.....election might have been different.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

If Jesus were to appear at Hillary's side, Trump's voters would declare him the Antichrist and start preparing for the End Times.

Of course.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Gonna get roasted on this, and some folks really do believe that if you didn't vote for (D) you are a racist, sexist, homophobe. Doesn't matter if you dislike Trump and/or didn't vote for him. It sickens me. The assumptions/etc are a big part of the divisiveness and yes, the (R)s are just as guilty of those assumptions, as has been mentioned.

It's really obvious that you were never on the other side of any of dumps insults. Ever.

I know plenty of people who listened to all of the crap he said, and how incredibly nasty it was. If you can't empathize with their pain, then you are what they say you are. You let the worst group of people climb back up as if their message had any validity at all.

It wasn't about R's or D's but voting FOR dump himself, and giving him the office. After so many years of progress, we find out so many people in this country are still heavily biased toward the white male. Who somehow thinks that they are under attack, still. THAT, as a white male, sickens me.

Funny how it was bad that Secretary Clinton bashed part of the public, but somehow it's ok that dump did, and you don't associate with that at all, and it bothers you so much that OTHERS are offended by it. What's up with that?

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

It's really obvious that you were never on the other side of any of dumps insults. Ever.

I know plenty of people who listened to all of the crap he said, and how incredibly nasty it was. If you can't empathize with their pain, then you are what they say you are. You let the worst group of people climb back up as if their message had any validity at all.

It wasn't about R's or D's but voting FOR dump himself, and giving him the office. After so many years of progress, we find out so many people in this country are still heavily biased toward the white male. Who somehow thinks that they are under attack, still. THAT, as a white male, sickens me.

Funny how it was bad that Secretary Clinton bashed part of the public, but somehow it's ok that dump did, and you don't associate with that at all, and it bothers you so much that OTHERS are offended by it. What's up with that?

This is a great question and one that never gets asked. The diff is media manipulation. There was such a flood of stupid, inappropriate verbiage from tDump and a massive effort with multiple mouthpieces to 'help translate' what he said. There was something for everyone. No one could digest it all and if you wanted to believe you could find someone to tell you why it wasn't important that he said X. Hillary is polished. She makes a blunder and it stands out like a shining beacon- all the media mouthpieces honed in and it was like a flash bang grenade. If you actually watched it in context (or you looked at it in the context of what tDump said) it was not as bad as the way they edited it. Not a great moment for her but certainly not the moment they manufactured it to be. It was amazing to watch the manipulation develop. A brilliant piece of marketing. If you weren't watching it unfold there is no way to reproduce it because all there is left is the final product.