POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

When a candidate condemns a good part of the population, you think they are gonna still vote for that candidate? Right or wrong, that was a very bad move.

What a joke. Trump ticked off just as much Constituency as Hillary yet he gets a freakin' pass.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Good post here. Really good post.

Followup: IF YOU VOTED FOR HIM is the key. I didn't. But I didn't vote against him, and some folks are making me (and similar folk) villains.

You didn't learn the Nader lesson. Thus we've had the two worst President's ever in the last 17 years. It should have only been one.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

What a joke. Trump ticked off just as much Constituency as Hillary yet he gets a freakin' pass.

On a regular basis, at ever rally. He had a string of labels. He just had a better marketing and a better clean up crew

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

You didn't learn the Nader lesson. Thus we've had the two worst President's ever in the last 17 years. It should have only been one.

Life often hands us situations where we need to make adult decisions. If the Fark Independents had made an adult decision for once in their lives, we might not be the laughingstock of the world.

But you know what the punchline is? Virtually all of them would do the same thing if given the choice today.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

http://www.startribune.com/jon-tevlin-a-proud-scout-turns-in-his-badge/437392393/

Tevlin: A proud Eagle Scout from Minnesota turns in his badge after Trump's speech
"It didn't matter what the speaker said, I identified it as an enormous failure of leadership by the adults who were there," said John Rowell of Moorhead.

John Rowell can fondly recall memories from his days as a Boy Scout in the early 1960s, the adventures of wilderness camping and canoeing with his buddies in Troop 211 in Fargo. He can also vividly recall lessons in “citizenship in the nation, citizenship in the community and citizenship in the home” that were drilled into him, culminating in Rowell becoming an Eagle Scout in 1966.

Rowell has proudly kept his Eagle Scout badge in his home office in Moorhead, at least until last week, when he drove to the Fargo Boy Scout office and gave it back.

It was during President Donald Trump’s outrageous, self-serving and mean-spirited (my words, not Rowell’s) speech to the Boy Scout Jamboree that the scouting laws of “courteous,” “kind” and “reverent” came back to Rowell. Egged on by Trump, many of the Scouts cheered or booed on cue, and to Rowell’s dismay, scouting leaders did little if anything to stop it.

Just remember Mr. Tevlin. It was ok for all those Scouts to join the Deplorable's. Just don't call them that to their face.

 

[unofan]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I think it would have. This nation did have a portion of "Anyone but Hill" and if she catered enough to those folks....and staring at Trump as prez.....election might have been different.

If someone is in the anyone but Hillary camp...how could Hillary have swayed them? Isn't she, by definition, the one person who could do jack shiat to sway that crowd?

 

[unofan]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

When a candidate condemns a good part of the population, you think they are gonna still vote for that candidate? Right or wrong, that was a very bad move.

She condemned the 30% who would and will vote for Trump no matter what. That the other 17% who voted for him took it to heart as well says more about them than her.

 

[Drew S.]

Life often hands us situations where we need to make adult decisions. If the Fark Independents had made an adult decision for once in their lives, we might not be the laughingstock of the world.

But you know what the punchline is? Virtually all of them would do the same thing if given the choice today.

I think it's easy for one to say that if they're naturally left leaning. I'm not sure being the laughingstock of the world is that high up on our list of major problems.

Hopefully some good comes out of this and we start getting better candidates run for office on both sides. The more the media and respective parties harass people though the harder it will be to get decent people to run.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Imagine you're at work and everyone thinks you're a joke. What are the consequences?

You won't be invited to join teams on important projects. You will likely be passed over for leadership positions. People are less willing to even talk to you

You have this nationalist viewpoint that is so dangerous in the global society we live in today. We need to be part of the global discussion and respected internationally else we'll cede our authority and leadership.

Oh, and before you say we're still the strongest nation on earth, don't. Military means nothing if you're isolated by the rest of the world.

 

[Drew S.]

Imagine you're at work and everyone thinks you're a joke. What are the consequences?

You won't be invited to join teams on important projects. You will likely be passed over for leadership positions. People are less willing to even talk to you

You have this nationalist viewpoint that is so dangerous in the global society we live in today. We need to be part of the global discussion and respected internationally else we'll cede our authority and leadership.

Oh, and before you say we're still the strongest nation on earth, don't. Military means nothing if you're isolated by the rest of the world.

Beyond being strong, we are a major part of other country's economy. I think the leadership in other places probably takes a longer term view than the media/general public. To a large degree, other countries need us more than we need them. That's not saying we should be more isolationist.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I think it's easy for one to say that if they're naturally left leaning. I'm not sure being the laughingstock of the world is that high up on our list of major problems.

Hopefully some good comes out of this and we start getting better candidates run for office on both sides. The more the media and respective parties harass people though the harder it will be to get decent people to run.

See below

Imagine you're at work and everyone thinks you're a joke. What are the consequences?

You won't be invited to join teams on important projects. You will likely be passed over for leadership positions. People are less willing to even talk to you

You have this nationalist viewpoint that is so dangerous in the global society we live in today. We need to be part of the global discussion and respected internationally else we'll cede our authority and leadership.

Oh, and before you say we're still the strongest nation on earth, don't. Military means nothing if you're isolated by the rest of the world.

Agree

Beyond being strong, we are a major part of other country's economy. I think the leadership in other places probably takes a longer term view than the media/general public. To a large degree, other countries need us more than we need them. That's not saying we should be more isolationist.

To be strong you need to have a sense of direction, countries need to believe there will be consequences if they don't toe the line. We currently have a leader that spins in wind with no discernable direction or maybe more accurately is going in multiple directions. We can be involved in other countries economies but with no leadership or direction (or worse- conflicting directions) that influence is negligible. So far all sorts of threats have been issued and then statements have conflicted. It is kind of like the parent that says, 'If you do that one more time!' but at the same time does something else so the kid gets a mixed message. Trump is not respected and at this point I would say the only part we have in their assessment of the situation is a vague worry he might go off for no reason. Since he isn't logical, has no discernable policy there is no way to please him anyway (other than to stroke his ego which Macron figured out and is laughing all the way).

In reality, although countries threaten, things are so interconnected there is no way one country can do anything alone. Look at Cuba- we have done everything possible to not engage them, shun them and make them fail. Russia and CHina et al have been their lifeline. There they still are. Same with N.Korea. China and Russia won't play ball so they are still doing their thing.

I find it a bit baffling that people can feel like any country can survive on its own. The world is so interconnected. I just can't comprehend how people here think the US can go it on their own, make decisions or decide they want what they want and the rest of the world will just give over. The only way we stayed a super power was a delicate dance of give and take. We stopped dancing. They will take. They don't know the rule that we should win all the time because that is a figment of the imagination. Maybe it is because our country is so big we have a large population that doesn't interact with the outside world. I have never met anyone outside of this country who has the attitude like I see here.

 

[Drew S.]

See below

Agree



To be strong you need to have a sense of direction, countries need to believe there will be consequences if they don't toe the line. We currently have a leader that spins in wind with no discernable direction or maybe more accurately is going in multiple directions. We can be involved in other countries economies but with no leadership or direction (or worse- conflicting directions) that influence is negligible. So far all sorts of threats have been issued and then statements have conflicted. It is kind of like the parent that says, 'If you do that one more time!' but at the same time does something else so the kid gets a mixed message. Trump is not respected and at this point I would say the only part we have in their assessment of the situation is a vague worry he might go off for no reason. Since he isn't logical, has no discernable policy there is no way to please him anyway (other than to stroke his ego which Macron figured out and is laughing all the way).

In reality, although countries threaten, things are so interconnected there is no way one country can do anything alone. Look at Cuba- we have done everything possible to not engage them, shun them and make them fail. Russia and CHina et al have been their lifeline. There they still are. Same with N.Korea. China and Russia won't play ball so they are still doing their thing.

I find it a bit baffling that people can feel like any country can survive on its own. The world is so interconnected. I just can't comprehend how people here think the US can go it on their own, make decisions or decide they want what they want and the rest of the world will just give over. The only way we stayed a super power was a delicate dance of give and take. We stopped dancing. They will take. They don't know the rule that we should win all the time because that is a figment of the imagination. Maybe it is because our country is so big we have a large population that doesn't interact with the outside world. I have never met anyone outside of this country who has the attitude like I see here.

Is Trump the problem or a symptom of the problem? I'd argue it's more the latter. What is America in 2017? I'd have a hard time answering that as I'm sure most would. To me that is the core of the problem much more than Trump.

I think countries over time have respected us less and less for whatever reason. I think they realize there is only so much we can do. Not to totally blame him but I think Obama's red line speech probably didn't do us any favors. To be fair to him, what he said was rational and I think most presidents would have expected that would have been enough.

I'm certainly not advocating us to completely cut ourselves off from the world, but we need to look at both sides of the equation. It's not just us who need the rest of the world.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Is Trump the problem or a symptom of the problem? I'd argue it's more the latter. What is America in 2017? I'd have a hard time answering that as I'm sure most would. To me that is the core of the problem much more than Trump.

I think countries over time have respected us less and less for whatever reason. I think they realize there is only so much we can do. Not to totally blame him but I think Obama's red line speech probably didn't do us any favors. To be fair to him, what he said was rational and I think most presidents would have expected that would have been enough.

I'm certainly not advocating us to completely cut ourselves off from the world, but we need to look at both sides of the equation. It's not just us who need the rest of the world.

Funny thing about the red line speech- after some actual diplomacy, we managed to get Syria to reduce their chemical weapons. Maybe they managed to hide some, or make some later, but getting a stockpile taken reduced significantly was important.

How were we taken less seriously? That we didn't attack? Being the big man with the big stick means we have to kill people when a red line is crossed? The only people who might have looked less on us were in on the chemical weapons reduction work- the ruskies.

Bush did more harm with the whole fake WMD of Iraq war. And then once the war was finished, we had no plan to get out and rebuild the country- which is what has led us to this incredibly long war. Interesting that you didn't mention that.

Are we looked at as weaker because President Obama wanted to diffuse the Iranians and their nuclear efforts? We also did that by diplomacy. When morons wanted us to bomb them instead.

We now just look stupid in the world thanks to dump. No cohesive idea of what we want to project, no diplomacy, nothing. That's a massive turn down from even what you consider bad from President Obama. We went from engaging and being a part of the world to nothing. That is bad.

The world has been an engaged world for centuries, if not millennia by now. Trying to stay out of that is incredibly short sided. Even if we think we can stand on our own with no outside help.

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Is Trump the problem or a symptom of the problem? I'd argue it's more the latter. What is America in 2017? I'd have a hard time answering that as I'm sure most would. To me that is the core of the problem much more than Trump.

I think countries over time have respected us less and less for whatever reason. I think they realize there is only so much we can do. Not to totally blame him but I think Obama's red line speech probably didn't do us any favors. To be fair to him, what he said was rational and I think most presidents would have expected that would have been enough.

I'm certainly not advocating us to completely cut ourselves off from the world, but we need to look at both sides of the equation. It's not just us who need the rest of the world.

Trump is partly a symptom of the problem coming from that portion of the GOP that gave us Sarah Palin and gave Joe the Plumber a microphone--all out a mix of ignorance and fear.

But he is very much a problem now, as he is categorically unfit to occupy the office of what can be the most powerful person on the planet. If you wish to step up and argue that he is fit, I'd like hear your reasons, because evidence to the contrary is coming in every day.

 

[unofan]

Not to totally blame him but I think Obama's red line speech probably didn't do us any favors.

FFS. The only people who give a rat's *** about the red line speech are Republicans and maybe the Syrians directly affected.

Funny how you constantly bring that one up but ignore ditties like Bush's mission accomplished speech or, well, anything said by Trump.

I'm so farking sick of this both sides are bad shiat when you're comparing a mild cold to Ebola. One is within the expected norms and can be easily handled. The other will literally kill you. But since both are bad, they're clearly the same.

No one should expect presidents to bat 1.000. But Obama was definitely over .500. Trump is batting .033. (Even Jon Lester gets a hit once in awhile).

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I'm so farking sick of this both sides are bad shiat when you're comparing a mild cold to Ebola. One is within the expected norms and can be easily handled. The other will literally kill you. But since both are bad, they're clearly the same.

It's very frustrating, but it's all they've got at this point, so we're going to keep on hearing it.

 

[Drew S.]

Trump is partly a symptom of the problem coming from that portion of the GOP that gave us Sarah Palin and gave Joe the Plumber a microphone--all out a mix of ignorance and fear.

But he is very much a problem now, as he is categorically unfit to occupy the office of what can be the most powerful person on the planet. If you wish to step up and argue that he is fit, I'd like hear your reasons, because evidence to the contrary is coming in every day.

What about the crowd who wants free college tuition and free healthcare? Isn't that somewhat ignorant as well? There is plenty of blame to go around. To say that rural white people are the only problem in our country is completely off the mark.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Q. When is an as-shole not an as-shole?

A. Apparently, never.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

What about the crowd who wants free college tuition and free healthcare? Isn't that somewhat ignorant as well?

Why is that "ignorant"? And what do you mean by "free"? Do we have a "free" military or "free" public schools?

There's always an argument to be made for any x whether it should be a right or a privilege. If school until 18 is a right, why not school until 22?

Our opinions differ but neither side in that difference is "ignorant."

 

[Drew S.]

FFS. The only people who give a rat's *** about the red line speech are Republicans and maybe the Syrians directly affected.

Funny how you constantly bring that one up but ignore ditties like Bush's mission accomplished speech or, well, anything said by Trump.

I'm so farking sick of this both sides are bad shiat when you're comparing a mild cold to Ebola. One is within the expected norms and can be easily handled. The other will literally kill you. But since both are bad, they're clearly the same.

No one should expect presidents to bat 1.000. But Obama was definitely over .500. Trump is batting .033. (Even Jon Lester gets a hit once in awhile).

You won't see any defense of Bush from me! I've posted on quite a few occasions that this whole century so far has been a disaster politically for our country. I actually gave Obama the benefit of the doubt in my comments on the red line speech too. It was more of an example of other countries not respecting us as much as they might have done in the past.