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POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

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Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I don't see Republicans* trying out "safe zones." They will shout you down, or at least attempt to, as is their right, and it looks just as foolish. I don't see discussions about banning hate speech like in Germany coming from the Republicans. Just sayin'.

Edit: I say "Republicans" when a better word for it might be non-liberals.

Oh, please. Republicans pass edicts that departments tasked with scientific research can't use the terms "global warming" or "climate change." They have been at the forefront of punishing freedom of speech. And as for political correctness, Republicans go ballistic whenever someone has the temerity to question the right of cops to kill innocent and unarmed people, or those who point out that sometimes Our Braves Lads overseas do horrible things, and always, always those who doubt there's an old man in the sky who cares what you do with your wing wang.

Reactionaries have led the league in enforcing political correctness and imposing their ideas by coercive means since the beginning of time. The right rules by the club and fears the unfettered mind. Twas ever thus.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Ooh, that mavericky John McCain. Returns to DC despite doctor's orders to vote on the health care bill. Then he votes to let the motion to debate the bill to proceed. If he hadn't returned, that motion would not have passed, the Senate healthcare bill drafted in secret would be dead.

Then he goes on to lecture his Senate colleagues on their partisanship, like there's nothing he can do in his position to help lessen such a thing. Also saying:

McCain said he could not support the Obamacare repeal effort “as it is today,” though it’s not clear what version he, or Republican leadership, has prioritized, nor which is most likely to pass the Senate if any.


Then, he votes yes on the bill.

Sorry, but when he passes, I will not shed a tear.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

That's their latest gambit to end this Russian investigation. Nothing happened, it's just a liberal conspiracy led by Hillary and Robert Mueller cause they're mad they lost the election. They're digging for dirt on Mueller and his team, looking for any connections to Democrat and liberal partisan interests, and will float whatever they find out there in the media, so their true believers soak it in, and start believing this as well. So when they fire Sessions, and then Mueller, ending the investigation, all of the Trumpites will scream, "Good" and little Donnie skates.

Trumpy has made it quite clear that no investigation into the Russian connections will be allowed to happen.

Whats better is that it is not even a secret that Trump is going to wait and fire Sessions so he can try and appoint a new AG with a recess appointment...someone who will bend to his whim. It is such a bad secret the Dems are looking to prevent it as we speak.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Ooh, that mavericky John McCain. Returns to DC despite doctor's orders to vote on the health care bill. Then he votes to let the motion to debate the bill to proceed. If he hadn't returned, that motion would not have passed, the Senate healthcare bill drafted in secret would be dead.

Then he goes on to lecture his Senate colleagues on their partisanship, like there's nothing he can do in his position to help lessen such a thing. Also saying:




Then, he votes yes on the bill.

Sorry, but when he passes, I will not shed a tear.

I didn't have this visceral reaction. My gripe with McCain is he's a peacock who loves the attention, and far from "country first" his political medal stand has been bronze country, silver party, gold John McCain. He's got a serious temper problem and he's not very honest, even with himself.

But. That was a great speech he gave, and the idea that a Republican would give that speech is itself a rare moment of sanity on the right. Yes, of course it was self-serving. Everything John McCain does is self-serving. But the words are still true:

"I've known and admired men and women in the Senate who played much more than a small role in our history, true statesmen, giants of American politics. They came from both parties, and from various backgrounds. Their ambitions were frequently in conflict. They held different views on the issues of the day. And they often had very serious disagreements about how best to serve the national interest.

"But they knew that however sharp and heartfelt their disputes, however keen their ambitions, they had an obligation to work collaboratively to ensure the Senate discharged its constitutional responsibilities effectively. Our responsibilities are important, vitally important, to the continued success of our Republic. And our arcane rules and customs are deliberately intended to require broad cooperation to function well at all. The most revered members of this institution accepted the necessity of compromise in order to make incremental progress on solving America's problems and to defend her from her adversaries.

"That principled mindset, and the service of our predecessors who possessed it, come to mind when I hear the Senate referred to as the world's greatest deliberative body. I'm not sure we can claim that distinction with a straight face today.

"I'm sure it wasn't always deserved in previous eras either. But I'm sure there have been times when it was, and I was privileged to witness some of those occasions.

"Our deliberations today – not just our debates, but the exercise of all our responsibilities – authorizing government policies, appropriating the funds to implement them, exercising our advice and consent role – are often lively and interesting. They can be sincere and principled. But they are more partisan, more tribal more of the time than any other time I remember. Our deliberations can still be important and useful, but I think we'd all agree they haven't been overburdened by greatness lately. And right now they aren't producing much for the American people.

"Both sides have let this happen. Let's leave the history of who shot first to the historians. I suspect they'll find we all conspired in our decline – either by deliberate actions or neglect. We've all played some role in it. Certainly I have. Sometimes, I've let my passion rule my reason. Sometimes, I made it harder to find common ground because of something harsh I said to a colleague. Sometimes, I wanted to win more for the sake of winning than to achieve a contested policy.

"Incremental progress, compromises that each side criticize but also accept, just plain muddling through to chip away at problems and keep our enemies from doing their worst isn't glamorous or exciting. It doesn't feel like a political triumph. But it's usually the most we can expect from our system of government, operating in a country as diverse and quarrelsome and free as ours.

"Considering the injustice and cruelties inflicted by autocratic governments, and how corruptible human nature can be, the problem solving our system does make possible, the fitful progress it produces, and the liberty and justice it preserves, is a magnificent achievement.

"Our system doesn't depend on our nobility. It accounts for our imperfections, and gives an order to our individual strivings that has helped make ours the most powerful and prosperous society on earth. It is our responsibility to preserve that, even when it requires us to do something less satisfying than 'winning.' Even when we must give a little to get a little. Even when our efforts manage just three yards and a cloud of dust, while critics on both sides denounce us for timidity, for our failure to 'triumph.'

"I hope we can again rely on humility, on our need to cooperate, on our dependence on each other to learn how to trust each other again and by so doing better serve the people who elected us. Stop listening to the bombastic loudmouths on the radio and television and the Internet. To hell with them. They don't want anything done for the public good. Our incapacity is their livelihood.

I don't care who said those words or what their ulterior motive was. Those are great, true, and health-giving words.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I thought he was going to be better for transgender individuals?

Better than what?

His party uses that issue to fund-raise and tub thump. As long as they include bigots in their coalition they are going to do stuff like this. Trump doesn't care about trans people either way -- Trump himself probably doesn't even understand what "trans" means any more than most other septuagenarians -- and neither do 99% of the GOP Members. They strike this pose for a certain type of voter. And if innocent people get hurt, well, they're OK with that.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Sorry, I can't feel the way you do.

I have little respect for people who can't walk the walk. Do their jobs. Like Cruz, or McConnell.

But I hold a special kind of disgust for those who talk the talk, but will not follow up their words with actions. At least Susan Collins even stood up on this vote, voting against both the motion to proceed with debate, and the bill itself. McCain decries the partisanship, the process of a bill crafted in secrecy by one party. But he does nothing to change this, and in fact, with his votes to proceed with debate, and yes on the bill as written, he rewards them for acting in this manner.

All he had to do to start the path toward more bipartisanship was to vote against the motion to proceed. A vote that would hold almost no future ramifications for him. And he can't even do that.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I didn't have this visceral reaction. My gripe with McCain is he's a peacock who loves the attention, and far from "country first" his political medal stand has been bronze country, silver party, gold John McCain. He's got a serious temper problem and he's not very honest, even with himself.

But. That was a great speech he gave, and the idea that a Republican would give that speech is itself a rare moment of sanity on the right. Yes, of course it was self-serving. Everything John McCain does is self-serving. But the words are still true:



I don't care who said those words or what their ulterior motive was. Those are great, true, and health-giving words.

Fine. Then follow them up with actions. Talk is cheap.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I didn't have this visceral reaction. My gripe with McCain is he's a peacock who loves the attention, and far from "country first" his political medal stand has been bronze country, silver party, gold John McCain. He's got a serious temper problem and he's not very honest, even with himself.

But. That was a great speech he gave, and the idea that a Republican would give that speech is itself a rare moment of sanity on the right. Yes, of course it was self-serving. Everything John McCain does is self-serving. But the words are still true:



I don't care who said those words or what their ulterior motive was. Those are great, true, and health-giving words.

He said that literally right after he was the 50th vote to screw around with the Senate rules that he "opposed", just like his speech opposing cloture on Supreme Court nominees, then voting for it. **** that man.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

All he had to do to start the path toward more bipartisanship was to vote against the motion to proceed. A vote that would hold almost no future ramifications for him. And he can't even do that.

I understand what you are saying but in this case I'm not sure I agree. The effect of his vote was to trigger the votes on the three GOP plans: the leadership plan with the Cruz replacement which is now dead forever, straight repeal which will be dead forever by tonight, and then skinny repeal which is a ploy and where the action is on the integrity of the GOP Members. Any Member who votes for skinny repeal is a knave. So, we'll see what he does with that.

If he votes Yay on skinny repeal then yes, I absolutely agree with you, he goes down as a fink. But if he kills it then he gets credit for actually doing something. Did he do it to preen? Probably -- that's his M.O. even moreso than the average Member. But still, he will have done something. I'm sure plenty of the Founders were looking over their shoulders at their legacy when they signed the Declaration.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I thought he was going to be better for transgender individuals?

No that was Ivanka. You know she is actually a liberal right? She is going to make sure he protects Women, Gays and the Transgender :rolleyes:
 
No that was Ivanka. You know she is actually a liberal right? She is going to make sure he protects Women, Gays and the Transgender :rolleyes:

Don't forget children! I mean the ones that don't work at her factories
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

I didn't have this visceral reaction. My gripe with McCain is he's a peacock who loves the attention, and far from "country first" his political medal stand has been bronze country, silver party, gold John McCain. He's got a serious temper problem and he's not very honest, even with himself.

But. That was a great speech he gave, and the idea that a Republican would give that speech is itself a rare moment of sanity on the right. Yes, of course it was self-serving. Everything John McCain does is self-serving. But the words are still true:



I don't care who said those words or what their ulterior motive was. Those are great, true, and health-giving words.

Sorry but McCain giving speeches means nothing especially when he acts in direct conflict with said speech within minutes of giving it. The words are hollow, he doesnt mean them and no one listening cares which is why he said it. McCain is a fraud and if he wasnt a former POW wouldnt get the leeway he gets.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

No transgender individuals allowed in the military anymore due to the "tremendous medical costs", because that is what makes the military budget bloated.

Florida GOP Rep Ileana Ros-Lehtinen has condemned the decision already. "'No American, no matter their sexual orientation or gender identity, should be prohibited from honor + privilege of serving our nation #LGBT,' Ros-Lehtinen, who has a transgender child, tweeted."

Link

Now, the cynic in me says there isn't a chance in hell she tweets this if she didn't have a transgender child. Time will tell if other Republicans join her. I'm genuinely interested in Kasich's reaction because he's starting to become a bellwether for the moderates in the GOP.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

No that was Ivanka. You know she is actually a liberal right? She is going to make sure he protects Women, Gays and the Transgender :rolleyes:

No, no, remember this is the new pro-LGBT...Q GOP. Remember at the convention when Trump said 50 gay people being murdered in a club was a bad thing and everyone applauded and then the new storyline was how the GOP was pro-LGBTQ now. Because they took the brave and bold don't-kill-50-people stance.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

Florida GOP Rep Ileana Ros-Lehtinen has condemned the decision already. "'No American, no matter their sexual orientation or gender identity, should be prohibited from honor + privilege of serving our nation #LGBT,' Ros-Lehtinen, who has a transgender child, tweeted."

Link

Now, the cynic in me says there isn't a chance in hell she tweets this if she didn't have a transgender child. Time will tell if other Republicans join her. I'm genuinely interested in Kasich's reaction because he's starting to become a bellwether for the moderates in the GOP.

While I partially agree...remember that most of the high ranking members of the military probably dont agree with this. They were the ones that basically forced Congress to end the ridiculousness on Gays in the Military while Senator Maverick preened and gay bashed to try and keep them out.
 
Re: POTUS 45.14 - No Confusion, It's Collusion!

No, no, remember this is the new pro-LGBT...Q GOP. Remember at the convention when Trump said 50 gay people being murdered in a club was a bad thing and everyone applauded and then the new storyline was how the GOP was pro-LGBTQ now. Because they took the brave and bold don't-kill-50-people stance.

To be fair, for them that is a brave and bold stance ;)
 
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