We need trade schools. Not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, just as not everyone is called to be a plumber. Both, however, are necessary.
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POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
- Thread starter joecct
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We need trade schools. Not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, just as not everyone is called to be a plumber. Both, however, are necessary.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
They have trade schools, that's definitely not what K-12 is suppposed to be for.
They have trade schools, that's definitely not what K-12 is suppposed to be for.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
And a good plumber should get paid as much as, maybe not a good doctor, but a good lawyer certainly.
Voc schools are incredibly important. They are one of the engines of social mobility in this country. There actually was a time when the top decile of blue collar labor was salary-competitive with the second decile of white collar labor. Now it's probably somewhere down in the fifth or sixth, and that's fiscal class genocide.
And a good plumber should get paid as much as, maybe not a good doctor, but a good lawyer certainly.
Voc schools are incredibly important. They are one of the engines of social mobility in this country. There actually was a time when the top decile of blue collar labor was salary-competitive with the second decile of white collar labor. Now it's probably somewhere down in the fifth or sixth, and that's fiscal class genocide.
A D wins a district 80/20. The R wins 55/45. Of course Ds got more votes in total. But that is not how the system works.
CA went 2/1 for Hillary. I believe tD won the Rust Belt by a few percentage points. Because of the margins in CA and NYC, the D received way more votes than the R. So? Again, that's not how the system works.
The gerrymander is a problem both at the Federal and State levels. Since neither party wants to lose influence in DC or in the State capital, it's not going to change until the voters (all 40% of them) demand change.
I think when you talk about things like literacy and graduation you're really only measuring how you are performing with say the bottom quarter of students. In a developed country like ours it's a given that a majority of kids will know how to read and graduate HS.
The problem I have with standardized tests is it is only a snapshot of a moment in time and is it truly capturing things that are meaningful? Does a good score at 17 mean that you are going to have what it takes at 25, 35, 45, etc? That's why I think you would get better data on how good the education system worked if you took a sample of say 1k 30 year olds.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
So this is what self inflicted torture looks like in the political ranks. It's meaningless because the USA isn't one giant district. Winning big in the districts you do win means nothing if the majority of districts are won small by your opponent.
The process isn't rigged. Everybody knows the rules going into the election. It's a matter of process execution by the parties.
So this is what self inflicted torture looks like in the political ranks. It's meaningless because the USA isn't one giant district. Winning big in the districts you do win means nothing if the majority of districts are won small by your opponent.
The process isn't rigged. Everybody knows the rules going into the election. It's a matter of process execution by the parties.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
I think you have the Senate and House reversed.
I think you have the Senate and House reversed.
I wish to associate myself with the Distinguished Member from Ithaca's remarks.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
I don't know about that. My school had a program with the local Vo-Tech in Rosemount for students who wanted to opt out of the non-required core classes and instead start down the path to becoming mechanics and such. They would spend half the school day there. I'd say about 30 kids took advantage of that from my class, which was 525 students. The kids taking these classes are in addition to those of us who took a basic auto-maintenance course, woodshop, home ec. and such.
I don't know about that. My school had a program with the local Vo-Tech in Rosemount for students who wanted to opt out of the non-required core classes and instead start down the path to becoming mechanics and such. They would spend half the school day there. I'd say about 30 kids took advantage of that from my class, which was 525 students. The kids taking these classes are in addition to those of us who took a basic auto-maintenance course, woodshop, home ec. and such.
unofan
Well-known member
You realize that's only a given because we created mandatory public education, right?
Prior to that, such things were not a given. And if we get rid if it as you and your ilk want to do, they will go away just as quickly.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
I'm fine with them taking those classes over say Chemistry or Calculus and maybe towards the end of their last two years of HS they can elect to do more of those. It definitely shouldn't be replacing any of the core classes though like history, civics, English, the more basic math classes (algebra), and the more important science courses like biology and earth science.
I'm fine with them taking those classes over say Chemistry or Calculus and maybe towards the end of their last two years of HS they can elect to do more of those. It definitely shouldn't be replacing any of the core classes though like history, civics, English, the more basic math classes (algebra), and the more important science courses like biology and earth science.
Right, that and there are definitely large sectors of our country that don't have the ability to read etc.
unofan
Well-known member
Uh, what? Rocks for jocks is now an important science course? Is that why honors/ap-track kids get to skip it entirely?
Ha, what is my ilk? I don't want us to privatize education one bit. I'd like to see it be done differently and kids given more options though. I think there is a better way than the one size fits all model we currently use.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
There is rigging, but it's not really the rigging that people think of when they say "well, Clinton won the popular vote cleanly and the Dems won the greater total of votes for both Chambers, and yet the GOP has a sweep of all three. Something is wrong."
Nothing in that is necessarily wrong. The pop vote / electoral vote is in the Constitution and is not "rigging." I'd be in favor of scrapping the EC, but that's not the point. Likewise, the Senate difference between total votes cast and the Senate composition is explained by Constitutional provision that less populous rural Republican states get the same Senate representation as highly populated urbanized Democratic states. Again, I would choose to amend this, but it is the current rule set.
The House is in fact "rigged," but far more indirectly, and it is ironically rigged by democratic means. Both parties gerrymander but Republicans have been able to gerrymander more effectively since the 2010 census. This is because state legislatures control the drawing of districts and Republicans did well in the 2010 election which chose the state legislators who drew the districts. 2010 happened to be a midterm election in which Republicans, with a smaller number of more fiercely committed voters, do disproportionately well in. So while Republicans "stole" the House, they stole it fair and square. Dems had the same opportunity and incentives to get to the polls and win majorities in state legislatures. We just didn't.
Voter suppression is real and it looms as a "nuclear option" threat for Republicans to win elections by disenfranchising voters. I do not know whether there is any documented case yet of the GOP stealing a Senate or Presidential election by voter suppression. The House I'm sure they have managed. It's a terrifying threat that ought to concern everybody, not just Democrats who happen to be on the short end of the stick right now. If for example the education gap between voters continues to widen, in future voter suppression measures will help better-informed Democrats disproportionately.
It would be A Good Thing to make it illegal now for the benefit of the whole body politic, but of course that only happens if voters push with bipartisan force, and the corporate control of media ensures that less powerful people are always at each other's throats over invented poutrages.
There is rigging, but it's not really the rigging that people think of when they say "well, Clinton won the popular vote cleanly and the Dems won the greater total of votes for both Chambers, and yet the GOP has a sweep of all three. Something is wrong."
Nothing in that is necessarily wrong. The pop vote / electoral vote is in the Constitution and is not "rigging." I'd be in favor of scrapping the EC, but that's not the point. Likewise, the Senate difference between total votes cast and the Senate composition is explained by Constitutional provision that less populous rural Republican states get the same Senate representation as highly populated urbanized Democratic states. Again, I would choose to amend this, but it is the current rule set.
The House is in fact "rigged," but far more indirectly, and it is ironically rigged by democratic means. Both parties gerrymander but Republicans have been able to gerrymander more effectively since the 2010 census. This is because state legislatures control the drawing of districts and Republicans did well in the 2010 election which chose the state legislators who drew the districts. 2010 happened to be a midterm election in which Republicans, with a smaller number of more fiercely committed voters, do disproportionately well in. So while Republicans "stole" the House, they stole it fair and square. Dems had the same opportunity and incentives to get to the polls and win majorities in state legislatures. We just didn't.
Voter suppression is real and it looms as a "nuclear option" threat for Republicans to win elections by disenfranchising voters. I do not know whether there is any documented case yet of the GOP stealing a Senate or Presidential election by voter suppression. The House I'm sure they have managed. It's a terrifying threat that ought to concern everybody, not just Democrats who happen to be on the short end of the stick right now. If for example the education gap between voters continues to widen, in future voter suppression measures will help better-informed Democrats disproportionately.
It would be A Good Thing to make it illegal now for the benefit of the whole body politic, but of course that only happens if voters push with bipartisan force, and the corporate control of media ensures that less powerful people are always at each other's throats over invented poutrages.
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trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
I mean I'm pretty sure we learned that stuff in middle school and I could've skipped it but it's something you should learn at some point.
How the earth was formed, the earth is not actually 6000 years old, plate tectonics etc.
I mean I'm pretty sure we learned that stuff in middle school and I could've skipped it but it's something you should learn at some point.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
I'm assuming you were joking, since any discipline can be taught "down" or "up." I took a Baby Bio class as a freshman to satisfy an ALS requirement which was the easiest class I ever took in college (and from my disinterest generated my worst grade, of course). But Bio as a discipline is INSANELY complex and essential.
I'm assuming you were joking, since any discipline can be taught "down" or "up." I took a Baby Bio class as a freshman to satisfy an ALS requirement which was the easiest class I ever took in college (and from my disinterest generated my worst grade, of course). But Bio as a discipline is INSANELY complex and essential.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
So. Fake news?
So. Fake news?
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
Same thing with where I grew up, involving a 40 mile trip to the BOCES location. Some even did full day and later picked up the GED.
Same thing with where I grew up, involving a 40 mile trip to the BOCES location. Some even did full day and later picked up the GED.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
Oh man my sides!So. Fake news?
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45.0: It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
Post of the year. The Mike dropped.
So. Fake news?
Post of the year. The Mike dropped.
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