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PK 2018 - Who do you have?

Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

ARM said:
Does anyone know why Julie Chu is not credited with the NCAA rookie scoring record? I've always thought that she had 93 points, and as far as I can tell, those all came versus NCAA programs. Is there some opponent for Harvard in 2002-03 that would cause those points to not be legit?
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According to the archives, Harvard played Wayne State (?) and Niagara (??) in that 30-3-1 season.They beat Niagara despite a mere three days rest after the exhausting W (17-2) against the Eagles. (Don’t remind you know who . . . he seems to be in a mood about the PK.)
 
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dd17 said:
Do you have the stats on per game ice time? From the games I saw Bach never leaves the ice. Full power play time. Can’t say the same about watts.
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Which means that Bach is actually less productive than Watts in a points-per-minute comparison. You actually sabotaged the point you were trying to make. Way to go. Watts should win the Kaz without any politics involved but we all know there's always politics with these things. It will be a huge shame if she doesn't win it.
 
ARM said:
Does anyone know why Julie Chu is not credited with the NCAA rookie scoring record? I've always thought that she had 93 points, and as far as I can tell, those all came versus NCAA programs. Is there some opponent for Harvard in 2002-03 that would cause those points to not be legit?
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Who is listed as the record? I tried to find it.
 
Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

Bach has the advantage when you consider the advanced statistics: for example, she outdoes Watt in RALHTAR (Rink-Adjusted Left-Hand Turns Above Replacement) by 12.2 to 11.9.
 
Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

TonyTheTiger20 said:
BU, at a minimum. I'm not sure who else might not count, possibilities would include Wayne State, Niagara, and UConn (just because I have no idea).
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BU would definitely not count, but Chu didn't have any points vs BU. Niagara was a FF team the season before. I think Wayne State is fine, because that was its fourth season IIRC. Lindstat had been at UConn for a while by then, so I think the Huskies are fine a well.

Anyway, I see that Chu is listed fifth in the points list, so that would give her the highest season of any rookie:
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_icehockey_rb/2018/D1.pdf

The people announcing the Beanpot ignored her, but that could be because they just had no idea she was a freshman in 2002-2003.
 
Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

shelfit said:
Which means that Bach is actually less productive than Watts in a points-per-minute comparison. You actually sabotaged the point you were trying to make. Way to go. Watts should win the Kaz without any politics involved but we all know there's always politics with these things. It will be a huge shame if she doesn't win it.
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There are also the intangible, off ice considerations, which we aren't always privy to. Bach has had time to "pad that stat", whether she did or not, I have no knowledge. Don't forget - it isn't a stat contest (and I don't have a desired outcome / poutcome)
 
DC78-82 said:
There are also the intangible, off ice considerations, which we aren't always privy to. Bach has had time to "pad that stat", whether she did or not, I have no knowledge. Don't forget - it isn't a stat contest (and I don't have a desired outcome / poutcome)
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Does it matter that Bach’s team has not performed well? If the player is absent for a period of time, what impact would her absence have on a team’s performance/record?
 
Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

DC78-82 said:
There are also the intangible, off ice considerations, which we aren't always privy to. Bach has had time to "pad that stat", whether she did or not, I have no knowledge. Don't forget - it isn't a stat contest (and I don't have a desired outcome / poutcome)
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Yes. I imagine that one of the main reasons only juniors and seniors have ever won is because as you say they have "had time to pad that stat." If another "Mother Teresa" played hockey, also had very good grades and was among the leaders in scoring I'm not sure even she would win as a freshman. But, I guess we'll just have to Watts and see. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
 
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Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

First off, I have a hard time believing that Victoria Bach is somehow some skating Mother Teresa over Watts just because she's 3 years older.

But more than that, I think you guys are overstating the importance of this intangible stuff. The award criteria says:

The Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award is presented annually to the top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey.
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Hard stop.

Pause.

Continue.

Other selection criteria include outstanding individual and team skills, sportsmanship, performance in the clutch, personal character, competitiveness and a love of hockey.
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Hard stop again. These are all factors in which a senior has no advantage over a freshman.

Finally, tertiary criteria,
Consideration is also given to academic achievement and civic involvement.
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This is a best player award. They will also consider your "academic achievement and civic involvement," but there's a reason "top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey" is is put there all alone by itself.

The reason a freshman has never won is that a freshman has never been the top player in NCAA Division I women's ice hockey.
 
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Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

TonyTheTiger20 said:
Yeah Watts tops Bach in almost every offensive category on a per game basis.

"Shots per game"? Who GAF?

Wow I wonder who made that power play unit so good?


This is quite the mental gymnastics. Except Watts doesn't have a single ENG. Bach has three. So on a per-game basis, Watts has more non-ENG goals per game than Bach, 1.18 to 1.10. I do appreciate you unintentionally coming up with a way to make the only stat that Bach beats Watts (literally, the one stat out of like a dozen) less impressive, though.

Bach couldn't have been that important to her team then could she?

BC lost three of the best defensemen in the world to the Olympics and still manages to sit 2nd in the Pairwise. You cannot possibly tell me that isn't directly because Watts was added to the roster.

Come on. People aren't "gearing up" to stop Watts? Yeah, BC has other offensive threats, but that doesn't mean they just give up on defending Watts.

Come on. BU's defense is one of the worst in the country. Watts is a +46, Bach is a +30. Literally a 50% (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) difference. If Bach has "defensive responsibilities," she isn't very good at them. And remember, BC is essentially playing with one elite defender plus THREE converted forwards (one of whom is a walk-on), an average defender, and a defender who will probably be in the stands next year.
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My goal was to try to isolate the player and minimize team inflation. Watts played with stronger forwards, stronger defense and a stronger goaltenders. Just like Kendall Coyne played on a weaker teams than Skarupa and Carpenter.

I mentioned shots per game because of CORSI. I don't have shot attempts, but higher SOGs will usually correlate to time in offensive zone versus time in defensive zone as well as time of possession. Coyne dominated that stat in college and is leading the Olympic team right now.

Power play was mentioned because BC trots out 3 of the top 4 forward scorers and the top D scorer in the league. BU just can't do that.

BC still had the best defense in the league this year.

You also have to take a look at their respective goalies save percentages and minimize the influence on plus minus. BU had the worst goaltending, BC's goaltending was not top but close. Switch up the save percentages and you drop about 20 goals from BU and add 15 goals against BC.
 
Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

EastFan1 said:
My goal was to try to isolate the player and minimize team inflation. Watts played with stronger forwards, stronger defense and a stronger goaltenders. Just like Kendall Coyne played on a weaker teams than Skarupa and Carpenter.
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The difference is, Coyne actually made Northeastern good.

I mentioned shots per game because of CORSI. I don't have shot attempts, but higher SOGs will usually correlate to time in offensive zone versus time in defensive zone as well as time of possession. Coyne dominated that stat in college and is leading the Olympic team right now.

Power play was mentioned because BC trots out 3 of the top 4 forward scorers and the top D scorer in the league. BU just can't do that.

BC still had the best defense in the league this year.

You also have to take a look at their respective goalies save percentages and minimize the influence on plus minus. BU had the worst goaltending, BC's goaltending was not top but close. Switch up the save percentages and you drop about 20 goals from BU and add 15 goals against BC.
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You are really, really, really working hard at this! I respect the hustle. However I respect Occam's Razor more.
 
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Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

EastFan1 said:
My goal was to try to isolate the player and minimize team inflation. Watts played with stronger forwards, stronger defense and a stronger goaltenders. Just like Kendall Coyne played on a weaker teams than Skarupa and Carpenter.

I mentioned shots per game because of CORSI. I don't have shot attempts, but higher SOGs will usually correlate to time in offensive zone versus time in defensive zone as well as time of possession. Coyne dominated that stat in college and is leading the Olympic team right now.

Power play was mentioned because BC trots out 3 of the top 4 forward scorers and the top D scorer in the league. BU just can't do that.

BC still had the best defense in the league this year.

You also have to take a look at their respective goalies save percentages and minimize the influence on plus minus. BU had the worst goaltending, BC's goaltending was not top but close. Switch up the save percentages and you drop about 20 goals from BU and add 15 goals against BC.
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My criteria. Who made sportscenter more often with highlight goals? Easy. Watts. She gave womens NCAA hockey more play time on air.
 
Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

TonyTheTiger20 said:
The difference is, Coyne actually made Northeastern good.
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NE made it to the HE championship game right before Coyne joined, and NE finished 2nd the year after Coyne left.

Aren't you already on record predicting what happens to BU next year?
 
Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

TonyTheTiger20 said:
First off, I have a hard time believing that Victoria Bach is somehow some skating Mother Teresa over Watts just because she's 3 years older.
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I guess I wasn't clear. I just don't think they are going to give the award to a freshman and wouldn't even if Watts was another "Mother Teresa." OTOH has there ever been a freshman that's put up the kind of numbers Watt has? Monique Lam? Oh, never mind.
 
Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

TonyTheTiger20 said:
First off, I have a hard time believing that Victoria Bach is somehow some skating Mother Teresa over Watts just because she's 3 years older.

But more than that, I think you guys are overstating the importance of this intangible stuff. The award criteria says:


Hard stop.

Pause.

Continue.


Hard stop again. These are all factors in which a senior has no advantage over a freshman.

Finally, tertiary criteria,

This is a best player award. They will also consider your "academic achievement and civic involvement," but there's a reason "top player in NCAA Division I women’s ice hockey" is is put there all alone by itself.

The reason a freshman has never won is that a freshman has never been the top player in NCAA Division I women's ice hockey.
Click to expand...

TTT - You're almost making me miss Skate79.:eek:
 
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