ZedLeppelin
Motormouth
Is there a specific reason why they will only have six teams?
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PHF Purchased, Teams to Be Folded Into New PWHPA League
- Thread starter Scott_TG
- Start date
BadgerPete
Active member
Really good insight by Lindsay up in the thread - very much agree with the sentiment. A pro league is a business and has to sustain itself as one. I was very surprised at some of the salaries being tossed around - someone asked before where that money was coming from and I guess now we have the answer - they did not have it. For comparison I think the ECHL (mens pro AA) pay their players like $500/week plus housing during the season only. That is like $30K max for the player and that is with an established league that has paying attendance of around 3000-4000 fans a game. That is a semi-pro league with semi-pro salaries. This new league will have to be the same with the players needing to supplement their incomes if it has any chance to survive I think. Out-of-box thinking would be to have the women's league play during the summers or in non-traditional markets. I know it is gimmicky but it would give the players a chance to coach during the 'regular' hockey season to make some more income. Maybe have the league be in Florida or something during the summer. A lot of causal fans might be interested to sit in an ice rink and cool off while being entertained.
There's a bunch of pro volleyball leagues all trying to start up simultaneously, and there's one that is taking an interesting angle that I wonder wouldn't provide some of that. League One Volleyball is connecting the pro teams to junior clubs, running both within a city. There's an element of being able to double up on duties and costs; when the players are attached to a club year round, you get a player/coach and it's easier to cover a living wage with the dual income streams of club sports and the tickets sales et al of the pro game.
Is there a specific reason why they will only have six teams?
Good question - I think we don't really know! If there's enough money for buying out one current league, one would think that they could support an equal-size or larger league.
I recommend the story Lindsay posted today; thank you, Lindsay. In it, PHF commissioner Reagan Carey says the PHF was planning to run the 2023-24 season and financially secure to do so. One PHF owner also says the owners started talks about investment from - or selling to? - the Mark Walter Group in late 2023 (edit: 2022). The sale sounds like it was quick, and the owners didn't profit from it.
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Is there a specific reason why they will only have six teams?
Alright, maybe a provisional answer to this - I saw someone commented online, “6 teams has been decided as the optimal league size since a feasibility study done as the CWHL closed. 6 team league has consistently been the goal and rumors for a PWHPA started league.”
From John Wawrow and Steve Whyno at AP from a day ago
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...e-could-end-rival-leagues-ap-source-says/amp/
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...e-could-end-rival-leagues-ap-source-says/amp/
An Ask Us Anything live stream is upcoming from reporters Angelica Rodriguez and Erica L. Ayala, 6PM ET on July 3rd: YouTube link
A little more info: https://www.blackrosiemedia.com/post/woho-ama-live-stream-july-3-on-youtube
A little more info: https://www.blackrosiemedia.com/post/woho-ama-live-stream-july-3-on-youtube
PHF players have formed an 11-member Player Leadership Committee with each PHF club represented (story via The Ice Garden, Alyssa Turner).
As Mike Murphy, also of The Ice Garden, remarked, the events create tough questions about the PHF ownership and board of governors - and this is something for which the respective ownership groups would need to take responsibility rather than it being the fault of the rank-and-file PWHPA players. The PWHPA members took action when another league (CWHL) folded and there was not, as far as I understand it, full space/resources for them in the NWHL (in any case, 2 expansion teams that didn't work out).
As far as questions about the PHF owners, it appears odd that two teams had coaching vacancies as long as since March. Also, I think, only two teams, Connecticut and Toronto, were not owned by either NLTT Ventures or BTM Partners, so that the stakes in the league were lopsided to those groups. Yet the league did seem to be going strong as far as most aspects. Good that the PHF player committee made such an affirmative statement.
As Mike Murphy, also of The Ice Garden, remarked, the events create tough questions about the PHF ownership and board of governors - and this is something for which the respective ownership groups would need to take responsibility rather than it being the fault of the rank-and-file PWHPA players. The PWHPA members took action when another league (CWHL) folded and there was not, as far as I understand it, full space/resources for them in the NWHL (in any case, 2 expansion teams that didn't work out).
As far as questions about the PHF owners, it appears odd that two teams had coaching vacancies as long as since March. Also, I think, only two teams, Connecticut and Toronto, were not owned by either NLTT Ventures or BTM Partners, so that the stakes in the league were lopsided to those groups. Yet the league did seem to be going strong as far as most aspects. Good that the PHF player committee made such an affirmative statement.
The PW ratified their CBA last night. from Hailey Salvian at the Athletic:
“Having a CBA ratified before the start of the 2023-24 season is a first for a major women’s professional league. The WNBAadopted its first CBA in 1999, two years after its inaugural season in 1997. The NWSL CBA was finalized last year, almost 10 years into the league’s existence. Meanwhile, the PHF had a set of league bylaws but not a CBA.“
Quite the accomplishment by the PWHLPA (yes there is a new letter in the alphabet soup), to get this in line beforehand. It makes sense considering how many times they got burned with leagues folding.
8 Year contract, through 2031.
“Having a CBA ratified before the start of the 2023-24 season is a first for a major women’s professional league. The WNBAadopted its first CBA in 1999, two years after its inaugural season in 1997. The NWSL CBA was finalized last year, almost 10 years into the league’s existence. Meanwhile, the PHF had a set of league bylaws but not a CBA.“
Quite the accomplishment by the PWHLPA (yes there is a new letter in the alphabet soup), to get this in line beforehand. It makes sense considering how many times they got burned with leagues folding.
8 Year contract, through 2031.
One significant rumor buried in the bottom of the AP article that I haven't seen discussed much:
"In the meantime, existing PHF player contracts have been voided, though an agreement is in place to pay those under contract a portion of their salary through September, two people with knowledge of the information told AP. One of the people said players will receive half their salaries or $5,000, whichever is greater, and that there will be $1 million earmarked to spread around to those who do not make one of the new teams."
If this is real that's a pretty decent severance and not the nothing everyone has been talking about the players getting.
"In the meantime, existing PHF player contracts have been voided, though an agreement is in place to pay those under contract a portion of their salary through September, two people with knowledge of the information told AP. One of the people said players will receive half their salaries or $5,000, whichever is greater, and that there will be $1 million earmarked to spread around to those who do not make one of the new teams."
If this is real that's a pretty decent severance and not the nothing everyone has been talking about the players getting.
I am not sure - The Hockey News reported the severance is one twelfth (~8%) of their contracts or $5k, whichever is greater; and if it was half, then $5k would be less than half for all contracts and so not make sense to include. They are also allowed to stay on health coverage through Sept. 30.
edit to add: I believe that the $1 million part is confirmed by Ian Kennedy and that players participating in that are supposed to receive a minimum of $10k.
edit to add: I believe that the $1 million part is confirmed by Ian Kennedy and that players participating in that are supposed to receive a minimum of $10k.
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Breakdown of PWHL players' compensation including salaries, housing, and meals, https://thehockeynews.com/womens/pw...details-new-professional-womens-hockey-league
Breakdown of PWHL players' compensation including salaries, housing, and meals, https://thehockeynews.com/womens/pw...details-new-professional-womens-hockey-league
$1,500 a month just for housing …hard to believe back in 2017 the Olympians were getting less than that from USA Hockey in total. Whatever shortcomings still exist, things have come a looong way in 6 years.
Jeff Marek had Stan Kasten on the Jeff Marek show yesterday (radio that also gets published as podcast). He’ll have Jayna Hefford on today.
$1,500 a month just for housing …hard to believe back in 2017 the Olympians were getting less than that from USA Hockey in total. Whatever shortcomings still exist, things have come a looong way in 6 years.
Jeff Marek had Stan Kasten on the Jeff Marek show yesterday (radio that also gets published as podcast). He’ll have Jayna Hefford on today.
Yeah, the housing allowance is a large plus. I’ve just listened to the Hefford interview. I felt that she was realistic about how the players didn’t want to pass on the problems of the past - and, also, how the Year 1 timeline would be a challenge.
There are some other details online. From reporter Mike Murphy, Per the Collective Bargaining Agreement, PWHL must maintain French, Russian (and other languages as requested) translations of the standard player agreement. “Also, the league will cooperate with international players to facilitate necessary visas and travel arrangements for a player, their partner, and their children at no cost.” On the hockey podcast The Broadscast, the agent Eleni Demestihas says players may be able to secure guest visas before being employed.
Per the CBA, in the 2023-24 season, Teams may play no fewer than 24 and no more than 32 Regular Season Games. (Preseason training to begin no earlier than Nov. 1 2023.) (Also from Mike Murphy online) Another clause reads, per Murphy and The Hockey News, “In all seasons except for 2023-24, Teams may play no fewer than 30 and no more than 32 Regular Season Games, unless otherwise approved by the PWHLPA.”
Job security looks up after a roster freeze date. Ian Kennedy writes in The Hockey News, “There is a roster freeze date that will go into effect, which is yet to be determined, after which point players cannot be waived or traded.” He also writes, “Since all contracts can be terminated at any point in the season prior to a roster freeze, long term contracts, other than those protected by the inaugural season, may not be the norm”; so, that is except the minimum of six 3-year guaranteed contracts at or above $80k. Three-year contracts are somewhat more secure than the ceiling of 2-year contracts in the PHF. Fwiw, two SDHL teams (HV71 and Linkoping) currently have a few 3-year contracts.
https://victorypress.org/2023/07/06...-league-jayna-hefford-stan-kasten-pwhpa-pwhl/
long read from Melissa Burgess of Victory Press, with quotes from Hefford and Kasten.
long read from Melissa Burgess of Victory Press, with quotes from Hefford and Kasten.
Still Eeyore
New member
The more I read, the more that it seems that, if there is a bad guy to point fingers at here, it's the management of the PHF. This deal was apparently in negotiations for the last six months. So, the entire time that PHF teams have been signing players to big deals, they have known that they were planning to sell. Even after it was a done deal, they kept signing players. All of the indications are that they dealt in bad faith with their players.
This doesn't surprise me. The NWHL/PHF management has always been very good at promising more than they can deliver. The PWHPA was founded because its players had decided, justifiably, that they couldn't trust the NWHL. Both they, and the NHL, had strong feelings about not getting involved with that management.
It wasn't just the players on whom management pulled bait-and-switches. Before their second season in the NWHL, the Whitecaps suddenly advanced the date at which season tickets went on sale. They excitedly talked about the great season they were going to have, and the great players that were going to be on the team. I believe that other NWHL teams did the same, though I can't confirm that. Forty-eight hours later, many of those great players said that they were leaving to form the PWHPA. The NWHL clearly knew what was about to happen, and they wanted to get those tickets out the door before their fans knew that the product wasn't going to be as good.
This deal hopefully sweeps the most useless part of the professional women's hockey architecture out the door.
This doesn't surprise me. The NWHL/PHF management has always been very good at promising more than they can deliver. The PWHPA was founded because its players had decided, justifiably, that they couldn't trust the NWHL. Both they, and the NHL, had strong feelings about not getting involved with that management.
It wasn't just the players on whom management pulled bait-and-switches. Before their second season in the NWHL, the Whitecaps suddenly advanced the date at which season tickets went on sale. They excitedly talked about the great season they were going to have, and the great players that were going to be on the team. I believe that other NWHL teams did the same, though I can't confirm that. Forty-eight hours later, many of those great players said that they were leaving to form the PWHPA. The NWHL clearly knew what was about to happen, and they wanted to get those tickets out the door before their fans knew that the product wasn't going to be as good.
This deal hopefully sweeps the most useless part of the professional women's hockey architecture out the door.
Here is a report that I’ve written, covering how the PHF contracts are cancelled (as of Mon July 10)—and how puck drop is reportedly coming soon (~Jan. 1) in the new league:
Link to Google Drive pdf
For starters, much disruption comes, given both that the ownership has voided PHF contracts and that only some players in the PHF and PWHPA will sign contracts in the new league. Most recently, the collective bargaining agreement passed unanimously on Sun July 2 is a good step in the ongoing fight for working conditions, and my document here details what is public so far about the CBA.
Link to Google Drive pdf
For starters, much disruption comes, given both that the ownership has voided PHF contracts and that only some players in the PHF and PWHPA will sign contracts in the new league. Most recently, the collective bargaining agreement passed unanimously on Sun July 2 is a good step in the ongoing fight for working conditions, and my document here details what is public so far about the CBA.
Here is a report that I’ve written, covering how the PHF contracts are cancelled (as of Mon July 10)—and how puck drop is reportedly coming soon (~Jan. 1) in the new league:
Link to Google Drive pdf
For starters, much disruption comes, given both that the ownership has voided PHF contracts and that only some players in the PHF and PWHPA will sign contracts in the new league. Most recently, the collective bargaining agreement passed unanimously on Sun July 2 is a good step in the ongoing fight for working conditions, and my document here details what is public so far about the CBA.
10 Doggie Biscuits for you Bow Wow for the great article. Really did a great job coherently pulling together information from a lot of different sources. Thanks.
10 Doggie Biscuits for you Bow Wow for the great article. Really did a great job coherently pulling together information from a lot of different sources. Thanks.
Agreed! Thanks Bow Wow.
Vintage Dublin
New member
Here is a report that I’ve written, covering how the PHF contracts are cancelled (as of Mon July 10)—and how puck drop is reportedly coming soon (~Jan. 1) in the new league:
Link to Google Drive pdf
For starters, much disruption comes, given both that the ownership has voided PHF contracts and that only some players in the PHF and PWHPA will sign contracts in the new league. Most recently, the collective bargaining agreement passed unanimously on Sun July 2 is a good step in the ongoing fight for working conditions, and my document here details what is public so far about the CBA.
I bet there are players who have signed lease agreements in certain areas assuming they would be playing in the PHF. Now what?