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Patty Kazmaeir 2017

Re: Patty Kazmaeir 2017

TonyTheTiger20 said:
If the final 3 isn't ARD, Pannek, Keller then I'll be pretty surprised. Keller's going to get every eastern vote.

You westerners love to rip on Keller but she's a boss and y'all know it.
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Admittedly it's been a fun bit based on the original hyperbole, but no question Keller is the best defensemen in the Boston area. ;)

Mercer and either Marchment or Webster are worthy of being in the top 3.
 
Re: Patty Kazmaeir 2017

Eeyore said:
For all that people say that defense wins championships, their behavior indicates that they don't really believe that.* Professional teams pay more for offense, and the general belief is that players that can score are harder to find than ones who can play good defense, thus making the top offensive players more valuable and more important to have. The jury's still out on whether or not this is really true.

That's compounded by the fact that it's easier to measure an individual's contributions on offense than it is those on defense. We have a pretty good idea who the best offensive players in women's college hockey are; the same cannot be said for defensive players. We don't really have any stat that measures an individual's defense. People like to cite plus/minus, but it's only half a defensive stat, and it's also terrible for measuring value anyway. People are making progress towards finding useful stats to measure defense and total contribution at the NHL level, but no one's even collecting the data at the college level (men's or women's) to produce those stats, and no one's done the work to find out if they would be valid at this level even if we could.

The eye test is really all we have to go on, and none of the voters have a chance to see a representative sample of more than a fraction of the relevant players. So, they vote based upon what they can be confident in.

*In this case, their behavior is probably more accurate; the actual evidence that it's defense that wins championships is incredibly scarce. All of the data we have shows that, across just about all sports, you win championships by outscoring your opponent, and it doesn't really matter what path you choose to that end.
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for a person that tries to be an expert on stats and the like, you sure fell on your face with this post.
what does professional men's hockey have to do with women's college hockey?
even if you had the proof in men's pro hockey that D did or did not win championships, does it follow true in women's college hockey?
I give you at best a "B" for your blathering, and that's a Millenial B, not a Baby Boomer B.
IOW, most of the grade is for participation, we don't want to scar you with the grade you really earned.

BTW, notice that the statistics now include the Pokechecker Index? :D
the statistics now include how many goals a player was on the ice for, both for and against

TonyTheTiger20 said:
Did last year's game results somehow get added to this season's Kaz criteria? If so I think Coyne might have a good chance to go back to back...
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gotta admit, that is a nice come back
however, I don't think it says anywhere in the criteria that they must ignore (or consider) previous years. Given the voters are human, they likely cannot forget what a player has done in the past.
 
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Re: Patty Kazmaeir 2017

Eeyore said:
*In this case, their behavior is probably more accurate; the actual evidence that it's defense that wins championships is incredibly scarce. All of the data we have shows that, across just about all sports, you win championships by outscoring your opponent, and it doesn't really matter what path you choose to that end.
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Bill Russell gave a speech in Highland Arena when I was in college and talked about the importance of defense in winning championships, among other things. Of course, that was 1972 when he spoke and most of his 11 championships were in the 1960's. All sports have certainly changed a lot since then, but I think defense is still every bit as important as offence in winning whether it's in the NBA or women's hockey. Think of Lebron James monster block last year.
 
Re: Patty Kazmaeir 2017

bluffrinkrat said:
. . . I think defense is still every bit as important as offence in winning whether it's in the NBA or women's hockey.
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You'll get no argument from me on that, and, indeed, that's exactly what I said. However, this is not a recent development. It's pretty much always been true that high offense teams are roughly as successful as high defense teams. When people argue that defense is more important to winning championships, they generally cite anecdotes of teams that were actually bad defensive teams, making it unsurprising that their aggregate offensive/defensive capabilities were of less than championship caliber.
 
Re: Patty Kazmaeir 2017

pokechecker said:
for a person that tries to be an expert on stats and the like, you sure fell on your face with this post.
what does professional men's hockey have to do with women's college hockey?
even if you had the proof in men's pro hockey that D did or did not win championships, does it follow true in women's college hockey?
I give you at best a "B" for your blathering, and that's a Millenial B, not a Baby Boomer B.
IOW, most of the grade is for participation, we don't want to scar you with the grade you really earned.

BTW, notice that the statistics now include the Pokechecker Index? :D
the statistics now include how many goals a player was on the ice for, both for and against
Click to expand...

The version of you that knows how to use capitalization and punctuation is also better at reading comprehension.
 
Re: Patty Kazmaeir 2017

TonyTheTiger20 said:
Is it? I think in men's they vote for the top 10, and then the top 10 are voted on to determine a winner.

I thought there was no re-vote after the top 3 were announced.
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Patty committee conference call is Monday to discuss and debate the top 10. Votes are due in by 5 pm est that night.
 
Re: Patty Kazmaeir 2017

NMH said:
Patty committee conference call is Monday to discuss and debate the top 10. Votes are due in by 5 pm est that night.
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2 more shutouts for ARD this weekend. There were no other shutouts in the WCHA.
 
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