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PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

2

2Bladedskates

New member
Looking at the Pair wise and if the National tournament started today Bemidji St. would be excluded. I find this shocking. Bemidji St is having their strongest season in history and has a record of 22-1-3 against teams not named Minnesota or Wisconsin. With WCHA teams winning every national championship but one you would think Bemidji would gain a little more respect. There are no weekends off in the Midwest.
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

2Bladedskates said:
Looking at the Pair wise and if the National tournament started today Bemidji St. would be excluded. I find this shocking. Bemidji St is having their strongest season in history and has a record of 22-1-3 against teams not named Minnesota or Wisconsin. With WCHA teams winning every national championship but one you would think Bemidji would gain a little more respect. There are no weekends off in the Midwest.
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They deserve to be in it and they have respect across the league.

Having said that, if the purpose of the tournament is to crown the Nat'l Champion, BSU has had several chances this season to beat championship contenders Minn and Wisc. They do get another chance at them in the WCHA tourney.

Having said THAT, NE has had several chances to beat championship contender BC and failed. For some reason, the math gods think NE is better than BSU. I don't.
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

You can't expand the field, not even close to enough teams. and thats not the best solution, either. The NCAA Selection Committee simply needs only to abandon the PAIRWISE as the sole tool used to determine the teams that make the playoffs. The Pairwise depends so heavily on the RPI rating system, which is a very flawed rating system. If you aren't sure one way or the other, talk to some serious cbb fans and find out what they think of the RPI rating system. Cbb fans for the most part HATE the rpi. I'm not even sure if cfb recognizes the rpi rating system at all?


Take a look at the Krach Ratings and Bemidji St ranks 7th, same as where they rank in both of the popular polls, and North Dakota is 9th.


So the RPI based Pairwise is the only rating system out there that seems unable to recognize that Bemidji St is one of the best 7 teams in the country.


But to be honest, I am a WCHA fan, and so believe it would be a crime if BSU wasn't included in this year's NCAA tourney, and suspect that North Dakota is probably one of the Top 8 teams as well, but I am far more of a Gopher's fan, so the Gopher fan in me won't be too disappointed that BSU and UND don't make it into the NCAA tourney, as I'd be far more worried about losing to UND or BSU in a one game winner advances format, than I'd be worried about losing to any of the eastern teams outside of BC.
 
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Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

FredsDeadFriend said:
the Gopher fan in me won't be too disappointed that BSU and UND don't make it into the NCAA tourney, as I'd be far more worried about losing to UND or BSU in a one game winner advances format
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Yes :)

Not only that, but we play these guys a lot already.
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

If you guys just bumped the old threads about this every year we could conserve some internet
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

TonyTheTiger20 said:
If you guys just bumped the old threads about this every year we could conserve some internet
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If you're a fan of UND or Bemidji it's a very real issue. Imagine what it would be like if we had any of them here :eek:

Yes, it's mostly just us Gopher fans, and a few Wisco's, regurgitating about it's unfairness but really how happy we are we don't have to play them again :D
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

Tell you what. You guys do something about BSU/ND being screwed out of the tournament every year, and we'll do something about BC having bad attendance, and all of our annual problems will be solved!

Should be easy right?

:D
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

TonyTheTiger20 said:
If you guys just bumped the old threads about this every year we could conserve some internet
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Honestly, how many of the posts by any of us are new and interesting? It's hard to get new input on the forum if we require everyone to go back and read all previous threads before they post anything.
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

PuckRush said:
They deserve to be in it and they have respect across the league.

Having said that, if the purpose of the tournament is to crown the Nat'l Champion, BSU has had several chances this season to beat championship contenders Minn and Wisc. They do get another chance at them in the WCHA tourney.

Having said THAT, NE has had several chances to beat championship contender BC and failed. For some reason, the math gods think NE is better than BSU. I don't.
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The WCHA has four teams in the bottom half of the Pairwise and BSU played them 16 times. Best win was over #11 North Dakota. Add in a very weak non-conference schedule and it's not hard to see why it will be close.
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

Bemidji out + CHA team in = unsavory. That's my math.
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

brookyone said:
Bemidji out + CHA team in = unsavory. That's my math.
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This is what I see in the bottom half of the pairwise
St Cloud is not in bottom half of the pairwise. So WCHA has 3 teams in bottom half.
WCHA 37.5% of teams in bottom half of pairwise-those teams non conference winning % of 58.33%
ECAC 41.67% of teams in bottom half of pairwise-those teams non conference winning % of 17.86%
HE 66.67% of teams in bottom half of pairwise-those teams non conference winning % of 33.33%
CHA 66.67% of teams in bottom half of pairwise-those teams non conference winning % of 34.82%
 
ARM said:
Honestly, how many of the posts by any of us are new and interesting? It's hard to get new input on the forum if we require everyone to go back and read all previous threads before they post anything.
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It was tongue in cheek, I'm aware there is an infinite amount of internet lol
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

KTDC said:
This is what I see in the bottom half of the pairwise
St Cloud is not in bottom half of the pairwise. So WCHA has 3 teams in bottom half.
WCHA 37.5% of teams in bottom half of pairwise-those teams non conference winning % of 58.33%
ECAC 41.67% of teams in bottom half of pairwise-those teams non conference winning % of 17.86%
HE 66.67% of teams in bottom half of pairwise-those teams non conference winning % of 33.33%
CHA 66.67% of teams in bottom half of pairwise-those teams non conference winning % of 34.82%
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There you go ruining all the fun by inserting facts into the discussion. It's so much more fun for the people trying to argue the ridiculous when there aren't any facts to get in the way.
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

KTDC said:
If you're a fan of UND or Bemidji it's a very real issue. Imagine what it would be like if we had any of them here :eek:
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Here and following, just don't really have anything to add to the conversation. Kind of resigned to the fact that unless the Beavers win the WCHA, they are probably going to miss the tourney this year.... :(
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

beaverhockeyfan said:
Here and following, just don't really have anything to add to the conversation. Kind of resigned to the fact that unless the Beavers win the WCHA, they are probably going to miss the tourney this year.... :(
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Based on the pairwise, or just a gut feeling? I know I'm being lazy, counting on others to do the work, but I'm genuinely wondering what Bemidji needs to do to have a shot at jumping Princeton or NU. For example, would a 2nd Place finish at the Final Face-Off at least put the Beavers in the mix? Or is the autobid really the only option?

Next, suppose Bemidji does find a way to qualify. One scenario that I find pleasing is a #8 Bemidji team being sent to #1 BC for a quarterfinal series. (ducks for cover) Yes, yes. I know the NCAA will invoke the travel savings fig leaf and never allow it. But the thought of it makes me smile. Guessing I'm not alone.
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

pgb-ohio said:
For example, would a 2nd Place finish at the Final Face-Off at least put the Beavers in the mix? Or is the autobid really the only option?
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Per the people who have run the scenarios, "No; yes."

pgb-ohio said:
Next, suppose Bemidji does find a way to qualify. One scenario that I find pleasing is a #8 Bemidji team being sent to #1 BC for a quarterfinal series. (ducks for cover) Yes, yes. I know the NCAA will invoke the travel savings fig leaf and never allow it. But the thought of it makes me smile. Guessing I'm not alone.
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Bemidji would not be #8, because they would be ahead of the CHA team, but it is academic as you say, because the geography rule kicks in.
 
Re: PAIR WISE has Bemidji on the outside looking in

pgb-ohio said:
Based on the pairwise, or just a gut feeling? I know I'm being lazy, counting on others to do the work, but I'm genuinely wondering what Bemidji needs to do to have a shot at jumping Princeton or NU. For example, would a 2nd Place finish at the Final Face-Off at least put the Beavers in the mix? Or is the autobid really the only option?

Next, suppose Bemidji does find a way to qualify. One scenario that I find pleasing is a #8 Bemidji team being sent to #1 BC for a quarterfinal series. (ducks for cover) Yes, yes. I know the NCAA will invoke the travel savings fig leaf and never allow it. But the thought of it makes me smile. Guessing I'm not alone.
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Gut feeling and the comments by those who have run scenarios. Having watched the Women's Pairwise the last couple of weeks and watching it for years on the Men's side, it seems like it takes a major upset of some sort to really see any movement this late in the year. With them sitting at number 8 and the CHA autobid taking that spot, I think they have to at least make the WCHA Championship game to have any shot. And even if they finish second, I think it will still take something happening to Northeastern for the Beavers to leapfrog them.
 
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