Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

[DIIIFan]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

BakDraft that is so true of the 86-87/87-88 teams. Also there were actually true freshmen on the team I beleive. Some where along the way Oswego left the states for it's recruiting. Don Rea was a speedsester from Cali and GilMartin was Mass to name a few. It might do the program good to insert some US talent like PSUC has done. They were a team of mainly Canadian players in the 80's and now there is a good mix of talent from everywhere.
Oswego'89

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

BakDraft that is so true of the 86-87/87-88 teams. Also there were actually true freshmen on the team I beleive. Some where along the way Oswego left the states for it's recruiting. Don Rea was a speedsester from Cali and GilMartin was Mass to name a few. It might do the program good to insert some US talent like PSUC has done. They were a team of mainly Canadian players in the 80's and now there is a good mix of talent from everywhere.
Oswego'89

Keep in mind a few things....

A. Plattsburgh HAD to start bringing in US talent because they took a major hit in financial aid packages, especially compared to what Oswego hands out.

B. Back in the 80's and 90's the US Jr systems were light years behind the Canadian Jr systems, and for the most part still are. High school teams could handle the Jr teams.

C. True freshman don't work these days except on rare occasions. 1) you have to get to them before DI schools and 2) theres so much of a difference between 18 and 21, not only physical but mentally seeing the game and its speed.

D. You go back to the "Pre-Midd" days and the game was different. (Now bak don't get on my case for this) but the game was more based on physical hard hitting grinding hockey with a splash of skill (a-la NCHA type hockey). When Middlebury came into the league and brought this high tempo, highly skilled, fast brand of hockey teams had to adapt. I said for years in the 90's and 2000's that until the west changed their big bully type style they would be early outs in the NCAA tourney every year, and for the most part they have.

E. A team "of stars" is just that. It seems every year we see Oswego bring in the best recruiting class and transfers only to fizzle out. This top Jr player, that top Jr player...Now I love Gosek, but as I said before when you are 163-47-14 and 1-4 as the #1 team in your conference tourny with one of the best (if not the best) teams in that era I still question Goseks handling of a "team of stars".

Great coach don't get me wrong, any team would be a fool not to want a guy like Gosek behind his bench, but his track record in season II makes all the great accomplishments during season I almost a laughing stock. If Gosek doesn't bring home a SUNYAC title this year after finishing in 1st place (which I still think they will) things are going to get ugly in Oswego.

Whats scary is, imagine what Plattsburgh would be like if they had the resources like Gosek has at his disposal. What Emery's done with the resources he is limited to is what makes him in my Red and White glasses, the better of the two coaches.

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

Keep in mind a few things....

A. Plattsburgh HAD to start bringing in US talent because they took a major hit in financial aid packages, especially compared to what Oswego hands out.

B. Back in the 80's and 90's the US Jr systems were light years behind the Canadian Jr systems, and for the most part still are. High school teams could handle the Jr teams.

C. True freshman don't work these days except on rare occasions. 1) you have to get to them before DI schools and 2) theres so much of a difference between 18 and 21, not only physical but mentally seeing the game and its speed.

D. You go back to the "Pre-Midd" days and the game was different. (Now bak don't get on my case for this) but the game was more based on physical hard hitting grinding hockey with a splash of skill (a-la NCHA type hockey). When Middlebury came into the league and brought this high tempo, highly skilled, fast brand of hockey teams had to adapt. I said for years in the 90's and 2000's that until the west changed their big bully type style they would be early outs in the NCAA tourney every year, and for the most part they have.

E. A team "of stars" is just that. It seems every year we see Oswego bring in the best recruiting class and transfers only to fizzle out. This top Jr player, that top Jr player...Now I love Gosek, but as I said before when you are 163-47-14 and 1-4 as the #1 team in your conference tourny with one of the best (if not the best) teams in that era I still question Goseks handling of a "team of stars".

Great coach don't get me wrong, any team would be a fool not to want a guy like Gosek behind his bench, but his track record in season II makes all the great accomplishments during season I almost a laughing stock. If Gosek doesn't bring home a SUNYAC title this year after finishing in 1st place (which I still think they will) things are going to get ugly in Oswego.

Whats scary is, imagine what Plattsburgh would be like if they had the resources like Gosek has at his disposal. What Emery's done with the resources he is limited to is what makes him in my Red and White glasses, the better of the two coaches.

I guess I dont know much about the recruiting and aid packages,but I do know that to many guys that play the same style game adds up to trouble..I think that when ya get all scorers and no grinders its not a good combo..on My 87' team we DID have the scorers and grinders to mix well, and yes I personally loved to bang no offense taken..as far as Gosek as a coach I dont have the knowledge to make a very good assessment, but I am sure he knows hockey or he wouldnt be there and he seems to be happy and passionate in his game...I dont think his job would ever be in danger due to the post season loses, just doesnt seem like a d3 thing......cant wait for feb, no matter what you know Oz will be up for the feb 17th game

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

No don't get me wrong I don't think his job will be in danger at all, as a coach in DIII is much more then wins and losses. But it could affect the recruiting and there for future of a powerhouse. I know some recruits opted to other schools because of the sucess and there the lack of for Oswego in the SUNYACs. Add in that and his "special treatment" for stars and players are starting to notice.

FA is simple...Plattsburgh went from giving out huge discounts to foreign players aka Canadians to absolutley NO help over a 3 year period. Go back tbrough the results and you can figure out when. They did get some help back, but its no where near other schools A-la Oswego.

 

[OSU2010]

No don't get me wrong I don't think his job will be in danger at all, as a coach in DIII is much more then wins and losses. But it could affect the recruiting and there for future of a powerhouse. I know some recruits opted to other schools because of the sucess and there the lack of for Oswego in the SUNYACs. Add in that and his "special treatment" for stars and players are starting to notice.

FA is simple...Plattsburgh went from giving out huge discounts to foreign players aka Canadians to absolutley NO help over a 3 year period. Go back tbrough the results and you can figure out when. They did get some help back, but its no where near other schools A-la Oswego.

I don't think people choose not to go to Oswego because they think they won't be successful, They've made the Frozen four 3 times in the past 5 years and have a national championship out of it. I don't think people look at the division championships as much as the big picture (NCAA's)

 

[PSUChamps2001]

I don't think people choose not to go to Oswego because they think they won't be successful, They've made the Frozen four 3 times in the past 5 years and have a national championship out of it. I don't think people look at the division championships as much as the big picture (NCAA's)

Well I know of at least one thats why his reason was NOT to go to OSU...and making the NCAAs is about to get a lot harder losing another Pool C bid....

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

Keep in mind a few things....

A. Plattsburgh HAD to start bringing in US talent because they took a major hit in financial aid packages, especially compared to what Oswego hands out.

This continues to come up as a bone of contention from time to time, but I don't recall hearing the reason why its so special and how it can't be duplicated.....

To my knowledge there is nothing unique or proprietary related to Oswego's aid packages...other SUNYAC schools could offer the same deal if they wanted to...

Is there something unique at Plattsburgh that prohibits them from offering competitive packages that I am unaware of? Plattsburgh College Foundation is in the midst of a $15 million dollar campaign "SUNY Plattsburgh Bright With Promise" that will support the college and its mission, much like Oswego's Inspiring Horizons campaign a few years back. Hopefully the Plattsburgh community will embrace it and drive it to a successful conclusion. Maybe that will address the issues raised here.

(Full Disclosure - I sit on the Board of Oswego College Foundation, Inc., a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit corporation established for the advancement of SUNY Oswego)

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

This continues to come up as a bone of contention from time to time, but I don't recall hearing the reason why its so special and how it can't be duplicated.....

To my knowledge there is nothing unique or proprietary related to Oswego's aid packages...other SUNYAC schools could offer the same deal if they wanted to...

Is there something unique at Plattsburgh that prohibits them from offering competitive packages that I am unaware of? Plattsburgh College Foundation is in the midst of a $15 million dollar campaign "SUNY Plattsburgh Bright With Promise" that will support the college and its mission, much like Oswego's Inspiring Horizons campaign a few years back. Hopefully the Plattsburgh community will embrace it and drive it to a successful conclusion. Maybe that will address the issues raised here.

(Full Disclosure - I sit on the Board of Oswego College Foundation, Inc., a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit corporation established for the advancement of SUNY Oswego)

Basically, what it comes down to is that the administration's focuses have changed. As such, the amont of aid being awarded to foreign students has decreased in recent years. Since it's been discussed recently, it's easy enough to point out that many of the administration responsible for the decisions about webcasting of the hockey games would also have some say in the financial aid department... but we see how that's going.

(Please do not take this as an attack on Bruce Delventhal. Delventhal WISHES he had the power to make the decisions he is blamed for on this forum... although, for the sake of full disclosure, I still don't like him as a result of some of the decisions he IS responsible for)

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

No don't get me wrong I don't think his job will be in danger at all, as a coach in DIII is much more then wins and losses. But it could affect the recruiting and there for future of a powerhouse. I know some recruits opted to other schools because of the sucess and there the lack of for Oswego in the SUNYACs. Add in that and his "special treatment" for stars and players are starting to notice.

FA is simple...Plattsburgh went from giving out huge discounts to foreign players aka Canadians to absolutley NO help over a 3 year period. Go back tbrough the results and you can figure out when. They did get some help back, but its no where near other schools A-la Oswego.

Yea he will not lose his job over the loses, but I dont thnk losing will hurt recruiting to much whether its in the SUNYs or NCAAs, as you mentioned they have a nice package, and the rink doesnt hurt as well......I am also not sure about the "star treatment" what exactly is that??...I would just like to see more diverse recruits IF POSSIBLE I think it would help.....just say'in

 

[Birds]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

I don't know how this weighs in to this, but Plattsburgh was listed in the paper as having one of or the largest population of foreign students in the state. So, you might conclude that the money need be divided by a much larger number would equal smaller $$ per student. I know some state schools have a very small amount of foreign students. We know the problems that have occurred at Geneseo and Potsdam due to allocations unintentionally. Athletes are part of the total pool .

 

[OSU2010]

I don't know how this weighs in to this, but Plattsburgh was listed in the paper as having one of or the largest population of foreign students in the state. So, you might conclude that the money need be divided by a much larger number would equal smaller $$ per student. I know some state schools have a very small amount of foreign students. We know the problems that have occurred at Geneseo and Potsdam due to allocations unintentionally. Athletes are part of the total pool .

Then Plattsburgh should be able to bring in more foreign players with a higher foreign student population. If a school were to bring in more Foreign players and have a smaller foreign student population while giving out a foreign aid scholarship then it could be said they only were giving that foreign aid scholarship to bring in Foreign hockey players and that would be illegal aid. A school's athletic teams have to get similar aid as the population of the school as a whole. so if 40% of the student body gets aid then only 40% of the hockey team can get a scholarship. At least that's been my understanding of it, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[joecct]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

No don't get me wrong I don't think his job will be in danger at all, as a coach in DIII is much more then wins and losses. But it could affect the recruiting and there for future of a powerhouse. I know some recruits opted to other schools because of the sucess and there the lack of for Oswego in the SUNYACs. Add in that and his "special treatment" for stars and players are starting to notice.

FA is simple...Plattsburgh went from giving out huge discounts to foreign players aka Canadians to absolutley NO help over a 3 year period. Go back tbrough the results and you can figure out when. They did get some help back, but its no where near other schools A-la Oswego.

Oswego fans can correct me if I am wrong, but don't all out of staters get free room and board?

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Then Plattsburgh should be able to bring in more foreign players with a higher foreign student population. If a school were to bring in more Foreign players and have a smaller foreign student population while giving out a foreign aid scholarship then it could be said they only were giving that foreign aid scholarship to bring in Foreign hockey players and that would be illegal aid. A school's athletic teams have to get similar aid as the population of the school as a whole. so if 40% of the student body gets aid then only 40% of the hockey team can get a scholarship. At least that's been my understanding of it, correct me if I'm wrong.

Up until a few years ago those foreign students were getting ZERO help to come to Plattsburgh. So while yes they have some nice programs, lets be honest here do hockey players really care about some foreign program? No. While its great and all that PSU is doing all this for these foreign students, again its a nice cover to bring in Canadian hockey players...as mean as it sounds.

It has little to do with the ability to bring in more/less...its what those who do come are offered finacially.

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

Oswego fans can correct me if I am wrong, but don't all out of staters get free room and board?

There are a number of academic and need based grants that all students are eligible for...which may in some cases equate to room and board, but as a rule, there is no straight "free room and board" program for just being out of state...which is different from International....so while the student from Windsor, CT has a number of options, they are not the same as the student from Windsor, Ontario. And of course, all this has to conform to NCAA standards...

 

[OSU2010]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

My girlfriend is from Louisiana and she had cheaper tuition at Oz than I did being from New York.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

Then Plattsburgh should be able to bring in more foreign players with a higher foreign student population. If a school were to bring in more Foreign players and have a smaller foreign student population while giving out a foreign aid scholarship then it could be said they only were giving that foreign aid scholarship to bring in Foreign hockey players and that would be illegal aid. A school's athletic teams have to get similar aid as the population of the school as a whole. so if 40% of the student body gets aid then only 40% of the hockey team can get a scholarship. At least that's been my understanding of it, correct me if I'm wrong.

My understanding of it is quite different. Basically, the way I understand it is this: if 40% of students are athletes, then no more than 40% of those receiving the aid should be athletes. If the percentage of students receiving the aid who also happen to be athletes exceeds 40% by a statistically significant margin, a violation has occurred.

So the whole **** hockey team could be receiving the aid. The NCAA doesn't look at team-by-team numbers until after a violation has been found (so they can determine which teams to punish).

 

[Dyce]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

While its great and all that PSU is doing all this for these foreign students, again its a nice cover to bring in Canadian hockey players...as mean as it sounds.

This was probably the case 20 years ago, but it could not be further from the truth at this point, and particularly under the current administration. The international student program exists because it is wildly successful in its own right, and it receives recognition commensurate with that.

 

[Ozz]

My girlfriend is from Louisiana and she had cheaper tuition at Oz than I did being from New York.

That's false. Her tuition is higher than your's, but due to whatever aid she and yourself are/were eligible for, her remaining balance was smaller than your's.

 

[OSU2010]

That's false. Her tuition is higher than your's, but due to whatever aid she and yourself are/were eligible for, her remaining balance was smaller than your's.

Yes aid lowers tuition, so my statement was true, her tuition was lower than mine.

 

[Ozz]

Re: Oswego State Hockey 2011-2012 Season

Yes aid lowers tuition, so my statement was true, her tuition was lower than mine.

Aid does not lower tuition. Regardless of aid, tuition is a set price. Aid helps to defray the cost of tuition (and other expenses), but it does not change what tuition price shown on a given student's bill.

It is simply a matter of semantics.