Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

So FP1 didn't go so well for Baku.

First saw a manhole cover come up a little as LeClerc drove over it. And then later, Russel pulled it out of it's spot, destroying the underside of his car. Oops.

If that was not bad enough for the organizers (the cover should have been welded down), the truck carrying the Williams back to the pit hit a bridge, which broke the crane, and started draining hydraulic fluid all over the Williams.

Not a good start- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5f87xjg-m4

And it's worse than that.

In F2 qualifying, a guy is being bumped started, and his rear wheels run over two marshals ... because they were pushing the car from in front of the rear wheels. Seriously, dudes?

The Keystone Cops Grand Prix is on Sunday...

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

I went and looked at a car the other day which had a lot of small items done for safety. iI's been on the market 18 months. The shop owner who is selling the car for the owner, included things in his rebuild like anti decapitation bars. They are totally ugly, but he was the man who found a driver who had gone under the armco at Bridgehampton and was decapitated. He painted the exhaust orange to remind you it's hot don't touch. He getting a lot of criticism for the color. I don't know if I'll buy it or not but I appreciate the effort. I've seen a number of cars land on the neighbors cockpit after being bounced into the air.

Are you sure you are not talking about the F1 crash at Watkins Glen?

I know Bridgehampton very well, and I never heard this story. In fact, there was no guardrail at Bridgehampton outside of the main straight. It was all natural sand traps and dunes. (What a massive balls track that was. I sure do miss it.)

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Are you sure you are not talking about the F1 crash at Watkins Glen?

I know Bridgehampton very well, and I never heard this story. In fact, there was no guardrail at Bridgehampton outside of the main straight. It was all natural sand traps and dunes. (What a massive balls track that was. I sure do miss it.)

Could have been. I got the story from the owner but it could easily have been misunderstood. We passed on the car though. A lot of cars have these bars now but this one's were huge!

BTW, the 50th FF celebration at Road America will have over 220 Fords running as of now, 4 months before the event. A number of extremely rare and unique cars will be in attendance.

I think Baku will be a terrific race, if any of the cars are still running at the end.

 

[joecct]

Are you sure you are not talking about the F1 crash at Watkins Glen?

I know Bridgehampton very well, and I never heard this story. In fact, there was no guardrail at Bridgehampton outside of the main straight. It was all natural sand traps and dunes. (What a massive balls track that was. I sure do miss it.)

Francois Cevert, Tyrell? 1973? Top of the esses IIRC.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Francois Cevert, Tyrell? 1973? Top of the esses IIRC.

I'm sure this was an amatuer race he was talking about.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/47838557

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Francois Cevert, Tyrell? 1973? Top of the esses IIRC.

No. He was not decapitated. He did crash at the top of the esses in practice. The impact killed him. That was the impetus to put the chicane there which was removed when ISC and Corning bought the track out of bankruptcy.

It was Helmuth Koinigg the year before in the race at the Toe of the Boot.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

No. He was not decapitated. He did crash at the top of the esses in practice. The impact killed him. That was the impetus to put the chicane there which was removed when ISC and Corning bought the track out of bankruptcy.

It was Helmuth Koinigg the year before in the race at the Toe of the Boot.

The gentleman I was referring to named the person killed, and it wasn't Helmet Koinigg.
I had hopes for this last F1 race but again relatively boring. I think overall the SCCA and other NA race organizations do a poor job of publicizing racing results. SCCA had a majors this last weekend at Summitt Point. the SCCA web site has virtually nothing about it.

 

[joecct]

No. He was not decapitated. He did crash at the top of the esses in practice. The impact killed him. That was the impetus to put the chicane there which was removed when ISC and Corning bought the track out of bankruptcy.

It was Helmuth Koinigg the year before in the race at the Toe of the Boot.

^
I was at that race on the other side of the boot.

Wasn't that the race where they burned the bus in The Bog?

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

The gentleman I was referring to named the person killed, and it wasn't Helmet Koinigg.

The only other driver I've ever heard get decapitated somewhere in the Northeast was during a Formula Ford support race for the Canadian GP, either at Mosport or Mt. Tremblant, I can't remember. He ignored a local yellow flag, pulled out to pass, and ran underneath an ambulance.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

^
I was at that race on the other side of the boot.

Even if you were watching from that corner, you would not have known anything from what I heard from people. It was back enough, the sight line wasn't that good. No one, other than the corner workers right there, knew what was going on. And after they covered the car, with the driver still in it, with a tarp for the rest of the race (things were a lot different back then), everyone figured the driver had gotten out.

Later in my life, I met someone who's sister was working the next corner station. She also had no idea what was going on, other than the chatter on the radio, but she wasn't on the radio, so she was oblivious until after the race.

Wasn't that the race where they burned the bus in The Bog?

I can't remember which year that was.

Interesting how when Watkins Glen was resurrected, the track wanted nothing to do with the history of the Bog. No employee was ever allowed to talk about it. They even paved over that part. Until recently, when now they do hype the "The Bog" mystic. Of course now, it's used to sell memorabilia and such. Money always talks...

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

No. He was not decapitated. He did crash at the top of the esses in practice. The impact killed him. That was the impetus to put the chicane there which was removed when ISC and Corning bought the track out of bankruptcy.

It was Helmuth Koinigg the year before in the race at the Toe of the Boot.

BTW, the movie Rush combines these two crashes, which is why people think it was Cevert who was decapitated. They show the aftermath of the Cevert crash in the esses during practice, which is accurate. But, they inaccurately display the crash like that of Koinigg with the car under the guardrail with the top of the car sheared off leaving the only impression you can have which is the driver had to have been decapitated.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

BTW, the movie Rush combines these two crashes, which is why people think it was Cevert who was decapitated. They show the aftermath of the Cevert crash in the esses during practice, which is accurate. But, they inaccurately display the crash like that of Koinigg with the car under the guardrail with the top of the car sheared off leaving the only impression you can have which is the driver had to have been decapitated.

So to go back to the gentleman's comments, he put these big bars on the car to prevent all this. Most guys run some sort of bars right under the edge of the bodywork, and then they angle up to near the top of the main roll hoop. You see it especially on the tube frame cars. However this particular car had them well up out in the airstream and well forward.. As I said I think it's a good idea and gives the driver a bit more security. I passed on the car because he had welded in a steel floor in two parts whereas the hot set up is a single piece of 6061 aluminum riveted and bonded to the frame. It makes a massive difference to the stiffness and thus handling. Also two cars gives you two sets of headaches so maybe next year i'll go look for another one once I get this one sorted out. There are some real nice cars out there for sale right now.
BTW If anyone is interested I recommend the Bertil Roos school if you are trying to get your license. Worth every penny.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

INDYCAR owners are going to look even more spectacularly myopic and stupid when O’Ward gets to F1 and kicks ***.

https://racer.com/2019/05/09/oward-joins-red-bull-junior-team/

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

indycar owners are going to look even more spectacularly myopic and stupid when o’ward gets to f1 and kicks ***.

https://racer.com/2019/05/09/oward-joins-red-bull-junior-team/

qft

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

I'm having a real tough time seeing how this F1 season is going to be anything but a rout by Mercedes. Ferrari has no answer and they are not even on the podium after a ton of upgrades they brought in for Spain.. It could be a real boring rest of the year unless something happens different.

 

[solovsfett]

I'm having a real tough time seeing how this F1 season is going to be anything but a rout by Mercedes. Ferrari has no answer and they are not even on the podium after a ton of upgrades they brought in for Spain.. It could be a real boring rest of the year unless something happens different.

Truth. And to be honest how do we judge the greatness of Lewis Hamilton if all he needs to do is defeat his teammate every race? He’s now being compared to Senna which I don’t buy.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

Truth. And to be honest how do we judge the greatness of Lewis Hamilton if all he needs to do is defeat his teammate every race? He’s now being compared to Senna which I don’t buy.

Don't then. Other do, so be it. But some of Senna's greatness was just having to beat his team mate, too.... Lest we forget, the McLaren of 1988 still has the highest percentage of wins in a season. So it's not as if Senna didn't have the best of the best car in the field.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

I'm having a real tough time seeing how this F1 season is going to be anything but a rout by Mercedes. Ferrari has no answer and they are not even on the podium after a ton of upgrades they brought in for Spain.. It could be a real boring rest of the year unless something happens different.

Can't say that I mind seeing Ferrari move backwards. Especially the way they treat LeClerc. He's driving as good as Vettel, and is getting second fiddle all the time.

It's kind of interesting that in terms of overall car concept, Mercedes has consistently gone with a low rake car, and still dominates the field. Whereas the rest of the field just copied Adrian Newey's high rake concept.

 

[solovsfett]

Don't then. Other do, so be it. But some of Senna's greatness was just having to beat his team mate, too.... Lest we forget, the McLaren of 1988 still has the highest percentage of wins in a season. So it's not as if Senna didn't have the best of the best car in the field.

I think Senna’s greatness was personified by Monaco in a Toleman, Donnington in an inferior McLaren. Winning 5 races in 93 against a stacked Williams team. No driver since then has delivered as much in subpar cars.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2018- with less winglets.

I think Senna’s greatness was personified by Monaco in a Toleman, Donnington in an inferior McLaren. Winning 5 races in 93 against a stacked Williams team. No driver since then has delivered as much in subpar cars.

Ok, then why dismiss 2008? Or even 2007, when Hamilton should have won the WC had it not been for a bad call in China? Neither year, McLaren was the dominant car, and Hamilton put the car in places it should not have been. Or 2013, when Hamilton moved to a pretty poor performing Mercedes team, in the last year of those rules, against a dominant Red Bull, and still won a race and was 4th overall? Took a series of pole positions, too.

It's not as if Lewis has always had the best car ever.

And for me, I don't consider Senna the best ever. I think his legend is overplayed. He enjoys a status based on the availability of being able to see the races live, as I see it. Drivers like Nuvolare or Fangio or even Stewart and Clark could not rely on that kind of live coverage. And much of the endless hype that sportscasting brought to TV starting when ESPN opened it's doors. I also don't think Hamilton is the best of the best, and don't even think he thinks of himself that way. Getting Schumi's numbers, that looks to be pretty legendary, but not much more than that.