Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

At least you have good humor about it- I posted a similar suggestion on a different car forum, and was very "yelled" at by another poster. They were complaining about NBC running it's coverage long and odd- even though that was totally due to the race being red-flagged. Their precious DVR's didnt' get the finish.


I thought I also saw that the British GP was going to be on NBC as well, and I'm pretty confident that the race from Texas will be on NBC as well.

Lot's of back and forth of the Pirrelli 1000km tests on the Mercedes. not sure where this one is going to go- apparently Mercedes sent an e-mail pointing out that the testing is very open ended. Back in 2012.

well what I read was that all of the GP's but two would be on nbc sports network and that those other two would be on cnbc. Apparently that was wrong. Actually I kind of liked when it was on speed, but I get that now they have basically four channels of stuff.


there were some really cool in car cams from qualifying.

And Red Bull has been making a lot of noise about Mercedes testing with Pirelli, blaming the loss on it. blah de blah. whine whine whine.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Solid weekend of racing.

I thought Monaco was good. A nice win for Nico. I have to wonder how much longer Lotus is going to put up with Grojean's antics. He keeps making the same stupid mistakes over and over. I wonder if he's bringing enough money to Lotus to fix the cars he keeps wrecking? A tough weekend for Massa. Two wrecks in the same corner. Ugh. At least the second one was car failure and not driver failure.

If it was any other race except Monaco I would have a serious issue with the Pirelli test with Mercedes. As it stands it sounds like a serious violation of the rules, mostly on Pirelli's part but still not good. I think some fines are coming to both Mercedes and Pirelli. I read the press release by the FIA and they are certainly po'ed.


I thought it was a fair Indy. I am more excited and happy with the winner being TK than I am with the actual race. There was nothing wrong with the race and there were plenty of lead changes, but knowing that none of the lead changes are going to stick kind of made the passing seem underwhelming.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

If it was any other race except Monaco I would have a serious issue with the Pirelli test with Mercedes. As it stands it sounds like a serious violation of the rules, mostly on Pirelli's part but still not good. I think some fines are coming to both Mercedes and Pirelli. I read the press release by the FIA and they are certainly po'ed.

The confusing thing is that Pirellis is allowed to run these tests, and they are allowed to pick the team they are going to run the 1000km testing with. Plus, while the intent is to not test the current cars, apparently, it's legal to run an up to date car. Especially one that is clearly not understanding the tires all that well. IMHO, Red Bull would be next, if they don't burn the bridges too badly. Else McLaren then Lotus- since Ferrari already got the testing in, and won the subsequent race.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

The confusing thing is that Pirellis is allowed to run these tests, and they are allowed to pick the team they are going to run the 1000km testing with. Plus, while the intent is to not test the current cars, apparently, it's legal to run an up to date car. Especially one that is clearly not understanding the tires all that well. IMHO, Red Bull would be next, if they don't burn the bridges too badly. Else McLaren then Lotus- since Ferrari already got the testing in, and won the subsequent race.

Yes, the test are allowed, but the issue is that the test with Mercedes was done in secret and that apparently the testing was not offered to every team. Two very distinct points that were not followed.

Per the FIA:

“At the beginning of May, the FIA was asked by Pirelli if it was possible to carry out some tire development testing with a team, using a current car. Within the contract Pirelli has with the FIA as single-supplier, there is provision for them to carry out up to 1000kms of testing with any team – provided every team is offered the opportunity to do so.

“Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by the FIA that such a development test could be possible if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver, and that such tests would be conditional upon every team being given the same opportunity to test in order to ensure full sporting equity.

“Following this communication, the FIA received no further information about a possible test from Pirelli or Mercedes-AMG. Furthermore the FIA received no confirmation that all teams had been given an opportunity to test.”

As always it will be interesting to see what if anything happens.....

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Pot meet kettle....

In the press Boullier (Lotus team principle) is criticizing Perez, who is a bonehead, but then defends Grosjean, who is even more of a bonehead. Sometime you just can’t make this stuff up.

 

[joecct]

Yes, the test are allowed, but the issue is that the test with Mercedes was done in secret and that apparently the testing was not offered to every team. Two very distinct points that were not followed.

Per the FIA:



As always it will be interesting to see what if anything happens.....

Logically the only penalty possible is a one race ban for Pirelli.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Yes, the test are allowed, but the issue is that the test with Mercedes was done in secret and that apparently the testing was not offered to every team. Two very distinct points that were not followed.

I also read today that another issue that teams are having is that the Mercedes test used the W04 (2013 car) while Ferrari's test used a F150th (2011 car). Running an older car is acceptable. Also, and I am not sure about what Mercedes did, but the Ferrari test was not done in conjunction with the F1 team but was done with the Corse Clienti division of Ferrari.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

I also read today that another issue that teams are having is that the Mercedes test used the W04 (2013 car) while Ferrari's test used a F150th (2011 car). Running an older car is acceptable. Also, and I am not sure about what Mercedes did, but the Ferrari test was not done in conjunction with the F1 team but was done with the Corse Clienti division of Ferrari.

Add to that, Mercedes used current drivers, which apparently is also a no-no.

Originally, I thought this was much ado about nothing. But, now I don't know. I also read it is rumored Mercedes used the test to try out a new gearbox. This is exactly why the rules are written where you cannot use a current car with current drivers for a Pirelli run tire test.

Someone's head very likely could roll at Mercedes, and if Brawn set this up, this will be the excuse Tofft and Lauda use to get rid of him. Which would be a big mistake, but when has Lauda ever not made a mistake as a manager with any company, airline, racing, or otherwise.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Add to that, Mercedes used current drivers, which apparently is also a no-no.

Originally, I thought this was much ado about nothing. But, now I don't know. I also read it is rumored Mercedes used the test to try out a new gearbox. This is exactly why the rules are written where you cannot use a current car with current drivers for a Pirelli run tire test.

Someone's head very likely could roll at Mercedes, and if Brawn set this up, this will be the excuse Tofft and Lauda use to get rid of him. Which would be a big mistake, but when has Lauda ever not made a mistake as a manager with any company, airline, racing, or otherwise.

The other thing I've read- Mercedes actually sent a note to the teams that the rule may be seen as this being totally legal. Last year.

Not having read the actual rule, it's hard to judge if running a 2013 car with current drivers is actualy not legal for Pirelli.

As I see it.

No way would someone actually go and break a clear non-testing rule this badly without some knowledge that it's actually legal.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

No way would someone actually go and break a clear non-testing rule this badly without some knowledge that it's actually legal.

Or they did not think they would get caught?



In Indycar news....JR Hildebrand is out at Panther and Briscoe is in.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Or they did not think they would get caught?

Well, it's not as if you can keep it secret. How would you think you could avoid getting caught?

That's what gets me about it- Pirelli is being given a hard time about not offering it to other teams, and it's more about being offered to run compared to actually doing the test. That and Ross Brawn once again pointed out the gaping hole in the provision a year ago- much like the whole double diffuser.

I expect that what will come of this is a clarification of the rule.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Well maybe but... Ferrari had written to everyone saying that they wanted in season testing.
everyone assumed that in season testing was against the rules. So if it is legal, everyone else thought it wasn't. I think the intent of the rule is recognized by all, it's just that some think it can be equivocated.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Or they did not think they would get caught?



In Indycar news....JR Hildebrand is out at Panther and Briscoe is in.

Hildebrand just couldn't stop making bone-head mistakes. I'm surprised he wasn't fired after driver over Will Power under caution. ah well, Servia will get better results for Panther in the long run

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Well, it's not as if you can keep it secret. How would you think you could avoid getting caught?

That's what gets me about it- Pirelli is being given a hard time about not offering it to other teams, and it's more about being offered to run compared to actually doing the test. That and Ross Brawn once again pointed out the gaping hole in the provision a year ago- much like the whole double diffuser.

I expect that what will come of this is a clarification of the rule.

Got me, how they would think that. But the whole thing does speak to it being "secret". Whether that was by Mercedes or Pirelli (or even Ferrari at their test) I do not know. I do know that if everything was on the up-and-up, then it should not have been a "secret" test, all teams would have been offered the testing opportunity, and there would not be this discussion about it.

Also, I believe something is not right when Mercedes decides to use a current car with, I believe, race drivers. Why take the chance wrecking a 2013 car and hurting Lewis or Nico so that Pirelli can test 2014 tires? It just doesn't add up to me. Maybe more will information will come out and it will all add up to nothing but right now I am very suspect of it.

According to Adam Cooper, this mornings Pirelli press conference about this mess has not answered any questions. Basically they are blaming Mercedes and the FIA, and referencing one line in an email they sent to the teams back in March 2012. Sounds like they are covering their butts and passing the blame (correctly maybe?) off onto Mercedes and the FIA.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

It keeps getting stranger...

"new information about the secret nature of Mercedes' test continue to emerge, such as La Stampa newspaper's claim that Lewis Hamilton tweeted a photo apparently from Florida, when actually he was testing in Spain."

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

On another subject a rider was killed this week in practice for the t t
Sorry to hear it

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Belle Isle turning into a crash fest. Ugh.

Bourdais is clearly not the driver he was 10 years ago.

If this was Nascar, the powers that be would encourage will power to take a walk down to penske jrs pit box and start a melee

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Belle Isle turning into a crash fest. Ugh.

Man, I so much hate the side by side starts, especially on street courses where there is NO room for dumb moves. Last week- Indy didn't do side by side, where it's a WHOLE lot easier to deal with. At least some of the corners had extra space, which seemed to help a lot.

And today's race was totally different than yesterdays, which had all of 3 yellows on route to Conway's very dominating win.

Oh, and congrats to his awesome win yeterday, and first win for Pagenud today! Stong and great end of the race.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

I enjoy double-file restarts, it's part of an attempt to make the racing better. they get through them just fine ala Brasil when the drivers use their heads

in other news, Vettel: what a ***** the quotes below from Speed


Meanwhile, Vettel said that his handling of the 'Multi-21' affair - when he brashly said he refused to let Webber win in Malaysia because the Australian didn't "deserve" it - simply revealed his true character.

"The image of me that existed before that day was simply wrong," said the triple world champion.

"Malaysia opened the eyes of many in this regard," Vettel admitted.

"If there is something unpleasant to speak about, I have always done it, just normally in the presence of those who really need to hear it, not the people sitting in front of the television.

"This time, it was different," he added.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Despite Conway running away with it, I really enjoyed the first race in Detroit. Lots of passing behind the first couple of places. I thought it was overall a clean interesting race. It's nice to see a driver like Conway get a win. I always thought it took some guts to quit racing ovals like he did.

The second one was horrible. It was like watching kids at the local go-cart track. One of the commentators hit it right, you can't win the race on a lap 20 restart but you sure can lose it. Or something to that effect. I have to wonder if now that Pagenaud has his first win if more will come quickly.

I really, really like the doubleheader format! I think more of them are necessary. I hope the crowds, teams, and Indycar do too.

I think the problem with the double file restarts is: 1) boneheaded driving and 2) the place where the drivers are allowed to accelerate is too far from the start-finish line. I like the double file restarts. Maybe if the teams have to keep reparing the car due to stupid moves on the restarts they will give a talking to the drivers and they will learn. Doubt it but maybe.