What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Cart had big name drivers who commanded a lot of media and a number of manufacturers involved. Andretti had world wide appeal, as did a number of others. The cars were very high tech and it was compelling to watch. Today it's a spec series with almost no name drivers.

I think it can be saved but it will be tough to do.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Russell Jaslow said:
This. I really believe people, especially those who still follow Indycar, don't realize how damaging that split was. They keep coming up with all sorts of excuses, but the fact is, the sport was very popular before the split, and it is not now.

Go back and look at TV ratings in the early 90s. Out of the top ten ratings, even excluding Indy and Daytona, almost half of them were CART races (Racer magazine used to print them all the time, so that is my source). CART was such a viable option for Europeans, they even got the defending world campion (Mansell), to come over when F1 didn't give him the money he wanted. Heck, CART had Bernie running scared, threatening everyone who corporated with bringing a CART race to Europe.

I was one of the biggest CART fans there was. It got to the point where I was going to 3-4 events a year for the entire weekends, not just race day. I lived and breathed the sport.

Now? I don't give a cr*p about Indycar. If someone like me isn't coming back, the more everyday fan is certainly not.
Click to expand...

I gave up for a while but couldn't resist very long. The cars are slower and don't have that high pitched whine I loved so much, but the last two seasons I think have been fantastic.

But overall I think you're spot on. Over 1/2 the fanbase left due to the split (not immediately, it was a gradual 7-8 year decline) and it's put Indycar in a position they've never been in and never thought of previously. How do you attract new fans? How do you survive now?

Derrick Walker and Mark Miles have their work solidly cut-out for them. I'm just afraid there's nothing they can do at this point.

If they opened up and pushed for engines to be as powerful as 1995 would the fans really come back? It's tough to say.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Russell Jaslow said:
This. I really believe people, especially those who still follow Indycar, don't realize how damaging that split was. They keep coming up with all sorts of excuses, but the fact is, the sport was very popular before the split, and it is not now.

Go back and look at TV ratings in the early 90s. Out of the top ten ratings, even excluding Indy and Daytona, almost half of them were CART races (Racer magazine used to print them all the time, so that is my source). CART was such a viable option for Europeans, they even got the defending world campion (Mansell), to come over when F1 didn't give him the money he wanted. Heck, CART had Bernie running scared, threatening everyone who corporated with bringing a CART race to Europe.

I was one of the biggest CART fans there was. It got to the point where I was going to 3-4 events a year for the entire weekends, not just race day. I lived and breathed the sport.

Now? I don't give a cr*p about Indycar. If someone like me isn't coming back, the more everyday fan is certainly not.
Click to expand...

+1. Excellent post and dead spot on. So incredible sad to see where this is gone relative to where it was. Im a massive F1 fan and also loved CART and the fact that was close to direct competition for F1. I honestly dont know anything about Indycar or the drivers / teams / tracks / series, and also dont care. Telling that it also doenst weven seem like a viable option for F1 guys (although did read that Sato had won a race and was happy for that and not surprised).
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Indycar will never be what CART was at it's height. CART was kind of an extreme sport for it's day. Now there are more extreme sports than you can count and Indycar cars are kind of boring to the common person. The way Indycar can become prevalent again is to mega ramp up the technology and speed. Their goal aught to be being lower, faster and more powerful than F1 cars. Do 250 @ Indy. Set a minimum weight, require an open cockpit, minimum of 3 wheels, maximum height, any propellant, any propulsion.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Timothy A said:
Indycar will never be what CART was at it's height. CART was kind of an extreme sport for it's day. Now there are more extreme sports than you can count and Indycar cars are kind of boring to the common person. The way Indycar can become prevalent again is to mega ramp up the technology and speed. Their goal aught to be being lower, faster and more powerful than F1 cars. Do 250 @ Indy. Set a minimum weight, require an open cockpit, minimum of 3 wheels, maximum height, any propellant, any propulsion.
Click to expand...

Who is going to pay for that? It was one thing when the techology to be fast wasn't that expensive. But now....

Money is racing is finite. F1 has the biggest bite, and unless something is done to somehow bring them into a more realistic program for privateers like it was in the 70's and 80's, when there was enough money to spend in CART, there's no way Indycar can afford that big of changes.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

I think Indycar is pretty much finished. The leadership (if we want to call them leaders) have zero clue what they are doing. And without that the rest is just window dressing. I think the problem is that the leadership cannot, for whatever reason, create a vision for the future and work towards it for more than 5 minutes. The new car was a start but the thing is slow and god awful ugly. (Fenders on an "open wheel" car, ***?) Also they cannot decide on how they want to race. Single file starts or double file starts? Standing starts or not? No pack racing but plenty of passing. It's almost like they are trying to please everyone and in the process are pleasing nobody and the race product is suffering.

For me, if I was in charge, aero kits would be in for next season without a doubt, no excuses which I am sure will be coming soon. The fenders would be removed for street/road courses but left on for ovals. I would remove the limit on HP, and limit fuel consumption (that has real world ramifications). Standing starts would happen. Double file restarts everywhere. Period. No listening to the whining drivers. If they don't like it then they are free to find another job. I like two different compound tires so that would be a keeper. Although I might tweak how they are used. As for tracks, I would race anywhere that wants Indycar to come, can pay the modest (not sure the amount) sanctioning fee, and is safe. If the product sucks, then move after a couple of years. But with the attention span of the public being that of a gnat then there needs to be 25+ races to keep the series in people's minds.

And I am sick and tired of hearing about costs. If that is a driving factor with teams and development (& I am not convinced it is), then place a spending cap on the teams and be done with it. Tell the manufacturers what they can sell their products for (make sure its a reasonable price so that everyone is happy) and let them do their thing. If GM, Honda, Dallara, the teams themselves, etc. want to develop their products during the season then let them as long as the price does not go outside of certain thresholds and is within the rules. Teams can spend X amount per season and let them spend it anyway they want. On customer parts or making the parts themselves. Write a decent rulebook and then make everyone adhere to it. Yes, I am being simplistic here but everyone gets my point.

And the bottom line is I would make tickets very cheap and promote the hell out of the series. I've listened to, and read plenty on, how Indycar needed an American driver to win. We get one and what happens...nothing. Not a **** thing to promote RHR and the series. Pathetic fail. Personally I do not believe that people care if the drivers is American or not but if the person is not promoted then it won't matter who he/she is. I think the people close to the sport (and I am including journalists, hard core race fans, and the Indycar leadership) are stuck in the past where the general public still considered the Indy 500 to be an premier sporting event that captured national attention. It doesn't. Forget that it ever did, and now work to promote the whole series and get people to come/watch. Go our and hire a marketing expert and let them do their thing(marketing not racing). And get rid of anyone living in the past that is not willing to evolve. Indycar doesn't need to forget it's roots but it cannot continue living in the past and wishing for it.
 
Last edited:
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

8 cars started the Indy lights race today. There will three times that man at my local track tonight in the smallest class. Pathetic.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

well...good race in Milwaukee. Terrible, terrible attendance. In years past 5-10,000 people would come in from Illinois, Minnesota and Canada for this event. Now? I don't know, judging from years past, seeing row after row of out-of-state or country license plates was common. Today and last year, I don't think I saw more than about 5-6 non-Wisconsin plates there.

I honestly can't put a finger on one reason as to the precipitous decline of Indycars popularity and race day attendance save to say it's the end result of the split.

For those who want Indycar to be F1 or F1 jr and have it be an engineering circuit, that's what CART was (and I LOVED CART). I went to the Michigan CART races where they went from 120,000+ spectators, to 90,000 to 55,000 in just 3 years and that was as high powered as those cars were going to get. So I don't blame the drop on slow and/or ugly cars of today, this drop pre-dates that by 10 years or more.

Is it lack of American winners? No. gimme a break. Ryan Hunter-Reay now has 11 wins and 1 championship under his belt. No-one in America outside of Indycar fanatics could give a rip about RHR , and that's a shame.

so if we rule out "spec cars" and "american drivers or winners" I'm running out of ideas that aren't related to the split which occurred just as NASCAR perfected their formula for WWE racing while beginning to take a stranglehold on USAC talent.

It's just depressing. I think it will take a miracle for Indycar to be back in Milwaukee in 2014. and quite possibly a miracle for there to be Indycar at all by 2020.

also 8 cars on Indy Lights? W/out Sam Schmidt and Michael Andretti my god there'd be no Indy Lights. What the hell is wrong w/Ganassi and Penske that those *****s can't field cars there? I'll tell you why, they don't actually give a rats *** about the health of the series. If left to their own devices each would have a series where 2 guys can win and they'd win by 57 seconds.

...but to end on a positive note. Good race today, RHR was great, Takuma Sato was great, the Mayor showed well, etc.

AND. IF Indycar survives to say 2015 they have a superstar in the making in Matthew Brabham. 5 consecutive Pro Mazda wins, this kid is looking like the real deal
 
Last edited:
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

I'm thinking about going to the Austin F1 race,...any thoughts on where I should procure tickets? F1 site shows what I thought as normal seats as being about $340 per, does that sound right?
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

solovsfett said:
I'm thinking about going to the Austin F1 race,...any thoughts on where I should procure tickets? F1 site shows what I thought as normal seats as being about $340 per, does that sound right?
Click to expand...

Not including the races we went to Indy for, the two times we've been to an F1 race, we got the tickets directly from the track/organizers. So I would suggest going directly to the offical COTA GP of the America's website, and getting the tickets there.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

interesting video from a couple of years ago at lime rock.. I noticed that the guy who spun initially had his left rear go off the track by about 6 inches and it lost grip. after that well....

guy is pretty lucky if you ask me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpJCGunNbok

I heard a rumor that F1 was looking at lime rock for a race. I am not sure that is a good idea.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

manurespreader said:
interesting video from a couple of years ago at lime rock.. I noticed that the guy who spun initially had his left rear go off the track by about 6 inches and it lost grip. after that well....
Click to expand...

That's an odd place to drop wheels off. Trying to maximize the arc of the turn. Not a very good bit of driving...
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

alfablue said:
Not including the races we went to Indy for, the two times we've been to an F1 race, we got the tickets directly from the track/organizers. So I would suggest going directly to the offical COTA GP of the America's website, and getting the tickets there.
Click to expand...

If they don't have the tickets available which you want, try StubHub. Be patient. I got Turn 15 seats last year for half price (but Turn 15 is the most expensive seats, so half price was still a lot).
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Russell Jaslow said:
That's an odd place to drop wheels off. Trying to maximize the arc of the turn. Not a very good bit of driving...
Click to expand...
oh absolutely true, but cars are typically all over the road in traffic. So yeah he was well left of the typical line at that point, and it's definitely a lot slower. I'm just amazed that a tube frame car had a wreck like that and the guy wasn't hurt and raced the next day.

regarding the lime rock joke... well at least it wasn't Nelson Ledges, or Summit Point.

There was an article on BBC about how F1 organizers are losing money or barely breaking even. Hard for me to fathom why some organizer decides to build a whole new facility so as to break even, so I wonder how the Austin race did financially.

also, Does anyone know if the honda engines now in Formula F 1600 are competitive?
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

manurespreader said:
oh absolutely true, but cars are typically all over the road in traffic. So yeah he was well left of the typical line at that point, and it's definitely a lot slower. I'm just amazed that a tube frame car had a wreck like that and the guy wasn't hurt and raced the next day.
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised at all. First of all, tube frame cars are very safe. Formula Fords are pretty safe. I've seen some pretty massive FF crashes with guys walking away from them. And like you said, they were going slower.

regarding the lime rock joke... well at least it wasn't Nelson Ledges, or Summit Point.
Click to expand...

I think there was an April Fool's joke on Nelson Ledges once. What a pit that place is, but I love it. Won my first race there, and always had my car nicely dialed in. But man, the bumpiness can sure wear you out. And you never want to drop a wheel there!

There was an article on BBC about how F1 organizers are losing money or barely breaking even. Hard for me to fathom why some organizer decides to build a whole new facility so as to break even, so I wonder how the Austin race did financially.
Click to expand...

I don't think any promoter is making money...

It's gotten to the point where the governments have to support the event, just like the Olympics. Which is way so many races are moving to Asia and the Middle East.

As for Austin, the Texas Tourism Board promised them something like $25 million a year for five years to help pay the sanctioning fee. And, they did bring in 120,000 spectators. I did a very rough estimate based on a wild guess of the average ticket price, and I supposed they brought in between $36 million and $45 million depending on how much they got from concessions and souvenir sales. And that doesn't include whatever sponsors they got. Of course all the TV and billboard money goes to Bernie, which is why it's so hard for the promoter to make money.

But, they spent a fortune building that track, and I don't know how much the other events as well as renting the track to clubs is going to help recoup that investment when so much will simply need to go towards running and maintaining the facility.

And to think, NJ plans on running their race without any public subsidy whatsoever (though it won't cost as much to build the place, since the roads are already in place).

also, Does anyone know if the honda engines now in Formula F 1600 are competitive?
Click to expand...

I believe they are. I think they set the rules up to make sure they are. Certainly, Honda is providing a lot of assistance and contingency money to get people to switch over.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top