Ohio State Buckeyes 2022-2023 ... The Drive For Duluth

[Hockeybuckeye]

Wading into this with *great* trepidation....

Is there another 'incident' besides the one four minutes into the first period? All the talk about "immobilization board" etc confuses me greatly. Buglioni leaves the ice on her skates, albeit while accompanied, then sits with trainers etc in an area adjacent to the player bench for a few minutes, then disappears from camera altogether, somewhere around eight minutes gone in the period.

I hope it is obvious that if she was subsequently taken elsewhere for further evaluation some minutes later is hardly something Bradshaw can take into account at the moment of the call/no call on the ice.

She was taken into St.Johns for further evaluation and was subsequently placed on the board and stretcher before being placed into the ambulance.
I counter that Bradshaw was accountable and does one need to be Captain Obvious that when you have a player laying motionless on the ice for an extended period of time that you should automatically look at it further?
Should Coach Muzerall really have to tell a ref to do his job and review what happened right in front of him?
We'll just have to wait and see if the WCHA makes issue of it or not.
Although the coach did not challenge who knows if she made issue with it post game? I do not know.

 

[robertearle]

She was taken into St.Johns for further evaluation and was subsequently placed on the board and stretcher before being placed into the ambulance.
I counter that Bradshaw was accountable and does one need to be Captain Obvious that when you have a player laying motionless on the ice for an extended period of time that you should automatically look at it further?
Should Coach Muzerall really have to tell a ref to do his job and review what happened right in front of him?
We'll just have to wait and see if the WCHA makes issue of it or not.
Although the coach did not challenge who knows if she made issue with it post game? I do not know.

The main camera position shows the 'Bemidji elbow' lined up with Buglioni's head, but the two-dimension nature of that angle doesn't show how much space there was or wasn't between the elbow and the head. You need a second camera at least to regain a sense of the 'dimensionality'. Bradshaw, on the other hand, is at a very good angle to see if there was space between the two. Depth perception is greatly lost through a camera angle; even more so through a 'long' lens. Yes, if a coach wants a ref to take a second look at something the ref is apparently not going to look at, the coach has to ask.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Yes, if a coach wants a ref to take a second look at something the ref is apparently not going to look at, the coach has to ask.

I'm the last person to try and guess the coach's motives in anything she does or doesn't do. I have complete faith in her to trust her judgement.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Wading into this with *great* trepidation....

Is there another 'incident' besides the one four minutes into the first period? All the talk about "immobilization board" etc confuses me greatly. Buglioni leaves the ice on her skates, albeit while accompanied, then sits with trainers etc in an area adjacent to the player bench for a few minutes, then disappears from camera altogether, somewhere around eight minutes gone in the period...

... I understand you guys were in the building, and were able to see much more. But the video available on BTN isn't at all 'definitive' or 'indisputable', etc.

I am responding solely to clear up the factual confusion. Speaking only for myself, I am not second guessing or criticizing anyone. Not the refs, not the coaches, not the players, not the fans.

As per my original post, I saw what you saw as far how Jenna left the ice, then the Ice Rink itself. She was brought to the home locker room area, in St. John Arena. It was there she was strapped to the board, then placed on the wheeled gurney. To get from the locker room area to the ambulance pick-up point, you have to go through the St. John Concourse. That concourse is a public area, used for concessions & rest rooms during Women's Hockey games.

Anyhow, the way I experienced it: After initially thinking the injury wasn't too bad -- like you -- I suddenly see Jenna strapped down to the gurney, quiet and still, being wheeled to the ambulance. Maybe I'm just queasy. But seeing that was like being blind-sided by a ton of bricks.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Anyhow, the way I experienced it: After initially thinking the injury wasn't too bad -- like you -- I suddenly see Jenna strapped down to the gurney, quiet and still, being wheeled to the ambulance. Maybe I'm just queasy. But seeing that was like being blind-sided by a ton of bricks.

I feel from a fans perspective what motivated our criticism of the officiating to be more intense was the fact that we had a player injured in both games with no calls. I know a lot of minor infractions are no calls a lot of the time but in my opinion for whatever it's worth that when there is an injury, at that point it's no longer a "judgement" call, a call should be mandated.

 

[Still Eeyore]

I counter that Bradshaw was accountable and does one need to be Captain Obvious that when you have a player laying motionless on the ice for an extended period of time that you should automatically look at it further?

My guess is that there isn't a camera that would show a good replay of the hit. With goals, there is an overhead camera to look at. For something that takes place in the corner, the OSU Ice Arena is largely devoid of good angles to see that from. I would guess that both Bradshaw and Muzerall both know where the cameras are and what they're able to review. The fact that BTN+ never showed a replay reinforces my suspicion. The advent of video review is another reason this team needs a new arena.

I'll second Robert. With the lousy visibility in the live shot, we really don't know what happened. I'll add that it isn't clear whether Bradshaw is looking directly at it. Right before the hit, he's looking in the direction of the net. He turns his head, but he might be watching the hit, or he might be tracking the puck, which Buglioni had chipped forward just before. So, he might be trying to evaluate the play with only a part of his focus.

The way Buglioni pitches forward with her whole body, rather than a snap of the neck, indicates that there was contact made on her torso. There might have been an elbow to the head as well, but it may just be Raeley Carney hitting Buglioni in the shoulder with her body. My take is that there should have been a bodychecking or boarding minor called on the play. The hit wasn't from behind, so that's out. There isn't a cross-check. If Bradshaw didn't see an elbow, I'm just not sure that there is a major penalty there to call.

Further, refs are not supposed to base a call on whether or not there is a significant injury. The penalty is the action, not the consequences. I have a lot of griping that hey don't actually do that on hooking and tripping calls, but that's the way they are supposed to do it. If Bradshaw didn't see an elbow, that Buglioni got hurt isn't relevant to what call he makes

 

[Still Eeyore]

I'll also say that this Bemidji State team is not pleasant to watch. By NCAA Division I standards, they are bad at playing hockey, and they let their frustrations turn into goonish play on multiple occasions.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Final Score From Saturday, February 25th
Ohio State 2
Bemidji State 1
(Ohio State Sweeps Best Of Three Series 2-0)

Buckeyes Overcome The Beavers' Strong Compete Level; Complete Series Sweep​

Sporting events can be interrupted for Injury Timeouts. You could say that this Injury Conversation is being interrupted by a 3 Stars Timeout. But I do want to give some credit where credit is due.

Three Stars Of The Game: Decidedly Unofficial & Just For Fun​

Bemidji State Honorable Mention: Hannah Hogenson
Brilliant in the nets both days. Saturday's total was 28 Saves on 30 Shots.

Ohio State Honorable Honorable Mention: Amanda Thiele
The Great Fans in the South Stands display a permanent collection of signs. One sign indicates they love Amanda. Hey, I love Amanda too! In Saturday's tight game, she had only a 1 goal margin of error. She accomplished her mission, posting 15 Saves on 16 Shots.


#3 Star: Jenn Gardiner, Ohio State
At the time, we all thought it was just an insurance goal. Turned out to be the game-winner. Sophie Jaques started the play from the right point, directing the puck into the slot. Jenn and linemate Gabby Rosenthal battled hard in common cause. Eventually Gardiner pounded the puck home. Kind of a greasy goal you say? Maybe so. But also a good playoff goal; and we sure wouldn't trade it away.


#2 Star: Claire Vekich, Bemidji State
Beaver Power Play. Gabbie Smith started the scoring play by gathering in the puck along the left wing boards. Back to the point to Khloe Lund. On to Claire, who finished the job. The Bemidji Breakthrough sure made the last 2:23 interesting.


#1 Star: Sloane Matthews, Ohio State
Sloane's goal came just 2:00 into the game. Kenzie Hauswirth gained possession behind the endline with a strong forecheck. Pass to Matthews in tight; Sloane then beat the Bemidji Keeper to the far post.

This contest was a cliff hanger from start to finish. But the early Matthews goal had the Beavers chasing the Buckeyes all afternoon. Crucial to the victory; that turned out to be the key moment of the game.



Up Next: The Final Face-Off @ Ridder Arena In Minneapolis. The Buckeyes and Bulldogs Open The Tournament On Friday, With The Winner Advancing To The Championship Game On Saturday.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Further, refs are not supposed to base a call on whether or not there is a significant injury. The penalty is the action, not the consequences.

I would counter that if a player is laying motionless on the ice, would it not be logical for the official to want to see the cause of it?

 

[Steamboat]

I would counter that if a player is laying motionless on the ice, would it not be logical for the official to want to see the cause of it?

During one of the January games between St. Thomas and UMD, at St. Thomas, the Bulldogs seemed to use every opportunity to rough up one Tommie who use to play at Duluth. It was really sickening to watch from the stands, that sort of playground vendetta. Towards the end of, I believe game 1, two Duluth players mauled the St. Thomas player, and left her laying on the ice. The play continued towards the St. Thomas goal, with 4 St. Thomas players fending off the five from UMD. They kept looking back, for the injured player to either join the play, get to the bench, or attract the refs attention. None of that happened, and Duluth scored as if they were on a power play.
There is a lot of contact throughout women's hockey. We need to demand a change in what we are seeing on the ice. These young women should not be paying the price for some abstract be-like-the-guys version of hockey. Let's protect the health and well being of our players, regardless of what league they play in.

 

[Still Eeyore]

I would counter that if a player is laying motionless on the ice, would it not be logical for the official to want to see the cause of it?

That was intended as a general comment. In this specific case, I think they didn't go to video review because they know that there's no camera in that arena that can see what happens in the corner with any clarity. I've certainly never seen any replays that can do that.

 

[MinnOTB]

That was intended as a general comment. In this specific case, I think they didn't go to video review because they know that there's no camera in that arena that can see what happens in the corner with any clarity. I've certainly never seen any replays that can do that.

I would add that the ref who is being mercilessly maligned here was in a very good position to see what actually happened and maybe didn’t need to review anything, as opposed to spectators who were 150-200 feet away or those of us viewing the stream who, of course, are watching the play through the special Ohio State net blur filter. Having said that, I’ve grabbed a clip of the play and have watched it frame-by-frame, stepping forward and backwards probably in excess of a hundred times and I’m not convinced the Bemidji player ever initiated any significant contact with Buglioni. It appears to me that the two players are about even with each other as they approach the boards and Buglioni leans forward and is able to get her stick on the puck and successfully punch it up the boards to her teammate. Just after that her left, forward skate hits the boards and doesn’t move again until her head has nearly hit the ice. Progressing from the moment her skate hits the boards and stops, the first thing that happens is that her breezers rise up several inches as her left leg straightens and approaches vertical. This rising up motion occurs before any similar motion is detectable by the Bemidji player, suggesting no hip check occurred. It is also observable at this point that Buglioni’s right leg is actually behind the Beaver player’s left leg, suggesting that the Beaver was the one with the positional advantage and ruling out a checking from behind penalty. That only leaves as a possible infraction something with the Beaver players left arm such as elbowing and it is mostly obscured in the video. However, the stick is visible and it appears that her left hand never left the stick and there was no telltale motion of the stick indicative of any infraction visible in the video. I’m convinced that everything was precipitated by Buglioni’s left skate making that immediate stop while she was bent over and focused on making the play to help hold the zone and unfortunately she got injured in the process.

 

[Steamboat]

I would add that the ref who is being mercilessly maligned here was in a very good position to see what actually happened and maybe didn’t need to review anything, as opposed to spectators who were 150-200 feet away or those of us viewing the stream who, of course, are watching the play through the special Ohio State net blur filter. Having said that, I’ve grabbed a clip of the play and have watched it frame-by-frame, stepping forward and backwards probably in excess of a hundred times and I’m not convinced the Bemidji player ever initiated any significant contact with Buglioni. It appears to me that the two players are about even with each other as they approach the boards and Buglioni leans forward and is able to get her stick on the puck and successfully punch it up the boards to her teammate. Just after that her left, forward skate hits the boards and doesn’t move again until her head has nearly hit the ice. Progressing from the moment her skate hits the boards and stops, the first thing that happens is that her breezers rise up several inches as her left leg straightens and approaches vertical. This rising up motion occurs before any similar motion is detectable by the Bemidji player, suggesting no hip check occurred. It is also observable at this point that Buglioni’s right leg is actually behind the Beaver player’s left leg, suggesting that the Beaver was the one with the positional advantage and ruling out a checking from behind penalty. That only leaves as a possible infraction something with the Beaver players left arm such as elbowing and it is mostly obscured in the video. However, the stick is visible and it appears that her left hand never left the stick and there was no telltale motion of the stick indicative of any infraction visible in the video. I’m convinced that everything was precipitated by Buglioni’s left skate making that immediate stop while she was bent over and focused on making the play to help hold the zone and unfortunately she got injured in the process.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to clarify what happened on the ice. As I have stated on another thread, hockey is by nature a dangerous sport. Ice is slippery, the players can get up to great speeds, and little things can cause that speed to suddenly stop, with injury to the players body, and the hearts and minds of us spectators.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Thank you for taking the time and effort to clarify what happened on the ice. As I have stated on another thread, hockey is by nature a dangerous sport. Ice is slippery, the players can get up to great speeds, and little things can cause that speed to suddenly stop, with injury to the players body, and the hearts and minds of us spectators.

Good words. I'll certainly acknowledge that both my heart & mind were badly wounded by Jenna's injury. When one of our players gets hurt, it's a member of my "hockey family" suffering. Not a distant public figure.

Let me expand a bit on your phrase "little things." In my experience as both a hockey participant and a spectator, it's the awkward hits and collisions that cause the most injuries. Players usually skate away from a big collision when they have an instant to prepare for it.

Everyone is going to agree that blowing up a totally defenseless player should result in a penalty. And that does directly combat some of the very worst injuries. But effectively legislating against the little things is a vexing challenge.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Well done, Buckeyes. Beating Soderberg & the Bulldog Defense isn't easy. On other threads you aren't getting credit for the forecheck pressure you applied. But I, for one, appreciate your play without the puck.

Just as importantly, great job closing out the game. Especially after UMD pulled to within one. You simply kept calm and got the job done.

 

[ARM]

On other threads you aren't getting credit for the forecheck pressure you applied.

tOSU has a great forecheck, no question. Both plays that produced goals were Bulldog miscues, however -- coming out in front of your own net when safer alternatives were available, and a soft flip through the middle. There are reasons why coaches tell you not to do certain things, and I would guess that 5th-year D know what they are. You still have to take advantage, and tOSU did.

 

[osualum86]

Pgb likes those music references, so I am going to go all Gearhead here and say the Buckeye Women were "Takin' Care of Business" today with their 2-1 win over a very good Minnesota-Duluth team. Neither team could find the back of the net in the first period so the teams went into the first intermission with a 0-0 tie. The Buckeyes lit the lamp in the second period on goals from Brooke Bink and Emma Maltais to take a 2-0 lead into the final intermission. The Bulldogs got a late goal from Nina Jobst-Smith to pull to within a goal, but that is how it ended. The Buckeyes outshot UMD 36-27 with Buckeye netminder Amanda Thiele stopping 26 of the 27 shots she faced to get the win. Bulldog backstop Emma Soderberg stopped 34 of the 36 shots she faced in the loss. Ohio State moves into the WCHA Final Faceoff Title Game tomorrow where they will face the Minnesota Gophers, who defeated Wisconsin 4-2 in the other semi-final. Gametime tomorrow is 3:00 pm EST.

 

[robertearle]

Pgb likes those music references, so I am going to go all Gearhead here and say the Buckeye Women were "Takin' Care of Business" today with their 2-1 win over a very good Minnesota-Duluth team. Neither team could find the back of the net in the first period so the teams went into the first intermission with a 0-0 tie. The Buckeyes lit the lamp in the second period on goals from Brooke Bink and Emma Maltais to take a 2-0 lead into the final intermission. The Bulldogs got a late goal from Nina Jobst-Smith to pull to within a goal, but that is how it ended. The Buckeyes outshot UMD 36-27 with Buckeye netminder Amanda Thiele stopping 26 of the 27 shots she faced to get the win. Bulldog backstop Emma Soderberg stopped 34 of the 36 shots she faced in the loss. Ohio State moves into the WCHA Final Faceoff Title Game tomorrow where they will face the Minnesota Gophers, who defeated Wisconsin 4-2 in the other semi-final. Gametime tomorrow is 3:00 pm EST.

They love to work at nothin' all day? Uhh...

 

[ARM]

Didn't pgb already use that song reference one of those times when the Buckeyes were workin' overtime?

 

[osualum86]

They love to work at nothin' all day? Uhh...

LOL, ok, you got me on that one! What can I say, I like BTO. Might have to think of something different after tomorrow's game.