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Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
Either a typo, or some sly shade.
Either a typo, or some sly shade.
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Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
- Thread starter pgb-ohio
- Start date
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
LOL. Typo. First thing Sunday morning typo.
LOL. Typo. First thing Sunday morning typo.
Still Eeyore
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
I assume that you're talking about my Scenario #2, where I don't think that Duluth would go to Madison, unless Minnesota ends up with the higher seed.
I assume that you're talking about my Scenario #2, where I don't think that Duluth would go to Madison, unless Minnesota ends up with the higher seed.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
Generally, yes, but I don't see how Lindenwood is a necessary condition. That would be the case regardless of who wins CHA.
CHA flies to Madison, Ohio State flies to Cornell, UMD drives to Minneapolis, and Princeton drives to Northeastern.
Generally, yes, but I don't see how Lindenwood is a necessary condition. That would be the case regardless of who wins CHA.
CHA flies to Madison, Ohio State flies to Cornell, UMD drives to Minneapolis, and Princeton drives to Northeastern.
Still Eeyore
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
Every other CHA team is a drive away from Ithaca, so the higher seeded of Minnesota and Wisconsin will get UMD, while the other will get OSU.
Every other CHA team is a drive away from Ithaca, so the higher seeded of Minnesota and Wisconsin will get UMD, while the other will get OSU.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
But that doesn't 'save' a flight; it is still two flights and two drives. Yes, Lindenwood would mean 'three drives', but otherwise I don't see why you assume UMD to Madison and not Minneapolis. If Lindenwood is not the CHA winner, then you get two drives and two flights either way.
But that doesn't 'save' a flight; it is still two flights and two drives. Yes, Lindenwood would mean 'three drives', but otherwise I don't see why you assume UMD to Madison and not Minneapolis. If Lindenwood is not the CHA winner, then you get two drives and two flights either way.
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
Beyond that, the rules allow the Committee to do pretty much whatever they want with the teams in #5 through #8 category. Sometimes the stars align and there's bracket integrity, sometimes not. Surprises are possible.
Another scenario to consider: Suppose the current Top 7 in the Pairwise make the tournament, & Mercyhurst wins the CHA. Isn't the below at least a possibility?
Princeton @ Northeastern
Mercyhurst @ Cornell
OSU/Clarkson @ MN
OSU/Clarkson @ WI
Google says Erie & Ithaca are 233 miles apart. Gotta believe the "Official Mileage Chart" has that as a drive, not a flight.
In that case, I'm less than 100% sure the Buckeyes get sent to play the Gophers. Why would we assume that the Committee would treat the #6 vs. #7 position in the Pairwise as dictating certain pairings?
Mind you, I'm not arguing for a one result over the other. If OSU is fortunate enough to qualify for the tournament, we'll gladly go where sent. (My sour opinion of the current rules notwithstanding) I'm just saying the plane tickets shouldn't be purchased just yet.
I agree that, if in, OSU is more likely to be sent West than East. I'd also agree that if MN is more probable than WI as the destination. But should UMD earn a bid, I think considerable uncertainty is introduced on the latter factor.
Beyond that, the rules allow the Committee to do pretty much whatever they want with the teams in #5 through #8 category. Sometimes the stars align and there's bracket integrity, sometimes not. Surprises are possible.
Another scenario to consider: Suppose the current Top 7 in the Pairwise make the tournament, & Mercyhurst wins the CHA. Isn't the below at least a possibility?
Princeton @ Northeastern
Mercyhurst @ Cornell
OSU/Clarkson @ MN
OSU/Clarkson @ WI
Google says Erie & Ithaca are 233 miles apart. Gotta believe the "Official Mileage Chart" has that as a drive, not a flight.
In that case, I'm less than 100% sure the Buckeyes get sent to play the Gophers. Why would we assume that the Committee would treat the #6 vs. #7 position in the Pairwise as dictating certain pairings?
Mind you, I'm not arguing for a one result over the other. If OSU is fortunate enough to qualify for the tournament, we'll gladly go where sent. (My sour opinion of the current rules notwithstanding) I'm just saying the plane tickets shouldn't be purchased just yet.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
This is particularly likely if Cornell passed Wisconsin for #1 (which became much more possible yesterday :-( )
But even then Clarkson vs Wisconsin is the more likely, because that would #7 at #2. And that gets us back to Eeyone's "OSU to Minneapolis".
(The one thing we all seem to be agreeing on is Princeton is going to Northeastern. Somebody call them so they can book their hotels earlier and cheaper!)
This is particularly likely if Cornell passed Wisconsin for #1 (which became much more possible yesterday :-( )
But even then Clarkson vs Wisconsin is the more likely, because that would #7 at #2. And that gets us back to Eeyone's "OSU to Minneapolis".
(The one thing we all seem to be agreeing on is Princeton is going to Northeastern. Somebody call them so they can book their hotels earlier and cheaper!)
Still Eeyore
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
If UMD and OSU are both in the tournament, then Clarkson pretty much can't be. For all three of those teams to be in, Princeton would have to be out, which amounts to the same thing.
If UMD and OSU are both in the tournament, then Clarkson pretty much can't be. For all three of those teams to be in, Princeton would have to be out, which amounts to the same thing.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
"Suppose the current Top 7 in the Pairwise make the tournament" was part of his scenario, "no Duluth" was an assumption.
"Suppose the current Top 7 in the Pairwise make the tournament" was part of his scenario, "no Duluth" was an assumption.
Still Eeyore
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
Yes, it does save a flight. If any team other than Lindenwood wins the CHA, then they drive to Ithaca. Princeton drives to Boston. So, the only two options to send to Madison are UMD and OSU. Assuming that UMD is ranked lower than OSU, they drive to Madison, and OSU flies to Minneapolis. Sending anyone else to Madison increases the number of flights.
Lindenwood is a flight anywhere, so if they win the CHA, then there are two flights regardless, and it fits the NCAA's rules to send them to Madison, UMD to Minneapolis, and Princeton and OSU to the eastern hosts.
Yes, it does save a flight. If any team other than Lindenwood wins the CHA, then they drive to Ithaca. Princeton drives to Boston. So, the only two options to send to Madison are UMD and OSU. Assuming that UMD is ranked lower than OSU, they drive to Madison, and OSU flies to Minneapolis. Sending anyone else to Madison increases the number of flights.
Lindenwood is a flight anywhere, so if they win the CHA, then there are two flights regardless, and it fits the NCAA's rules to send them to Madison, UMD to Minneapolis, and Princeton and OSU to the eastern hosts.
Still Eeyore
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
That was never an assumption of my scenarios. In fact, it was expressly ruled out in the case of my Scenario #2, where I stipulated that both UMD and OSU make the tournament.
That was never an assumption of my scenarios. In fact, it was expressly ruled out in the case of my Scenario #2, where I stipulated that both UMD and OSU make the tournament.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
Yes, but I posted that particular "Clarkson vs Wisconsin" response to pgb-ohio's scenario.
We're having multiple conversations that are 'crossing' and getting confused.
Yes, but I posted that particular "Clarkson vs Wisconsin" response to pgb-ohio's scenario.
We're having multiple conversations that are 'crossing' and getting confused.
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
I am way late on here, so I am not going to do my usual recap. I will just link the recap from ohiostatebuckeyes.com.
https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/buckeyes-drop-4-1-game-at-duluth/
I listened to Coach Muzerall's interview on twitter. For some reason it was on twitter, but not in the story. Coach actually thought we played very well yesterday. The problem is, the scoreboard is all that matters. I suppose I should not really be surprised. This program just cannot win in Duluth, as evidenced by a 1-9 record up there in the past five seasons. The Buckeyes have not won a game in Duluth since the 2015-16 season. Since then, they have gone 0-8 in Duluth.
Thanks Pgb and everyone else who tried to "talk me off the ledge." You guys are the best! Robertearle, you are a guru when it comes to the PairWise and you were correct that OSU did not drop below 6th. Unfortunately for this team, they still have not completely learned how to beat teams they are supposed to beat, and until they reach that level (ie. Minnesota & Wisconsin), we'll have to settle for being in that 5-8 range and dealing with road trips in the quarterfinals. Sigh. Looking forward to the day when Coach has our program at that level where we are not losing and tying teams ranked lower than us. Those losses and ties are the reason we are on the outside looking in when it comes to the top four and a home quarterfinal in the NCAA Tournament. I love our program, and obviously, Coach Muzerall has the program headed in the right direction, but clearly, they are not there yet. Have a great week everyone!
I am way late on here, so I am not going to do my usual recap. I will just link the recap from ohiostatebuckeyes.com.
https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/buckeyes-drop-4-1-game-at-duluth/
I listened to Coach Muzerall's interview on twitter. For some reason it was on twitter, but not in the story. Coach actually thought we played very well yesterday. The problem is, the scoreboard is all that matters. I suppose I should not really be surprised. This program just cannot win in Duluth, as evidenced by a 1-9 record up there in the past five seasons. The Buckeyes have not won a game in Duluth since the 2015-16 season. Since then, they have gone 0-8 in Duluth.
Thanks Pgb and everyone else who tried to "talk me off the ledge." You guys are the best! Robertearle, you are a guru when it comes to the PairWise and you were correct that OSU did not drop below 6th. Unfortunately for this team, they still have not completely learned how to beat teams they are supposed to beat, and until they reach that level (ie. Minnesota & Wisconsin), we'll have to settle for being in that 5-8 range and dealing with road trips in the quarterfinals. Sigh. Looking forward to the day when Coach has our program at that level where we are not losing and tying teams ranked lower than us. Those losses and ties are the reason we are on the outside looking in when it comes to the top four and a home quarterfinal in the NCAA Tournament. I love our program, and obviously, Coach Muzerall has the program headed in the right direction, but clearly, they are not there yet. Have a great week everyone!
Still Eeyore
Well-known member
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
Right now, I'm not sure UMD is a team anyone is just supposed to beat.
Right now, I'm not sure UMD is a team anyone is just supposed to beat.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
UMD is obviously playing very well right now, but the PairWise apparently thought we should have won up there as evidenced by the fact that they dropped us from 5th to 6th. But I do tend to agree with you that UMD looks like they have figured things out and are playing as well as anyone in the WCHA right now.
UMD is obviously playing very well right now, but the PairWise apparently thought we should have won up there as evidenced by the fact that they dropped us from 5th to 6th. But I do tend to agree with you that UMD looks like they have figured things out and are playing as well as anyone in the WCHA right now.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2019-2020: Muzzling All Detractors
I'd recommend that one not ever use the PairWise to try to predict outcomes. You're better off looking at KRACH or WCHODR. For example, WCHODR predicted OSU with 2.88 at UMD with 2.56. So you were a favorite by less than a 1/3 of a goal in a system that doesn't take into account that a team like UMD is playing better in the second half than it did in the first half. Compare that to Wisconsin being a favorite over MSU by 4.85 over 1.37 and settling for a split.