Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Sounds nice, but should the federal government make decisions on the effectiveness of local education?

I know, it's for the children!

The operative word is...contest. It rewards schools for achievement and taking the right actions. Just as with other federal funding, Maryland can choose to turn it down.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

The operative word is...contest. It rewards schools for achievement and taking the right actions. Just as with other federal funding, Maryland can choose to turn it down.

But the feds are deciding the rules for the awards. Its a nice debate to have on the level of involvement of the national government in what was, for most of this country's history, purely a local matter.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

But the feds are deciding the rules for the awards. Its a nice debate to have on the level of involvement of the national government in what was, for most of this country's history, purely a local matter.

I could see that, but its not a huge deal as its just a contest. The criteria only talks about outcomes such as improving teacher effectiveness based on performance...and not about how that's achieved. The states eliminate unions if they think it will help.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I could see that, but its not a huge deal as its just a contest. The criteria only talks about outcomes such as improving teacher effectiveness based on performance...and not about how that's achieved. The states eliminate unions if they think it will help.

...at least until the federal government threatens to remove Dept. of Education funding.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I could see that, but its not a huge deal as its just a contest. The criteria only talks about outcomes such as improving teacher effectiveness based on performance...and not about how that's achieved. The states eliminate unions if they think it will help.

The camel's nose is way past from just being under the tent flap. The feds are, in my opinion, way too intrusive at the state level, not only in education, but in just about everything.

It seemed like a good idea at the time...... but......

Edit: It seemed like a good idea, but -->http://townhall.com/columnists/kyle..._mount_against_michelle_obamas_new_lunch_menu

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

The camel's nose is way past from just being under the tent flap. The feds are, in my opinion, way too intrusive at the state level, not only in education, but in just about everything.

I think states should get alot of say in how they operate. And if you believe the concept of capitalism and markets creates the greatest benefits for customers (as I do) then you have to support states rights to a large extent. In the end, they're competing for citizens. Having said that...

Education standards have always played a huge factor in the success of our workforce (including productivity and unemployment). If Alabama truly blows at education, the rest of the country has to pay for that by them contributing far lower tax contributions...as well as taking government benefits of all types. And why should innocent kids of Alabama pay the price just because they were born there?

So my favorable views of states rights where they're best suited (ie, cultural issues) should remain. But education is one area where I would think twice.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I think states should get alot of say in how they operate. And if you believe the concept of capitalism and markets creates the greatest benefits for customers (as I do) then you have to support states rights to a large extent. In the end, they're competing for citizens. Having said that...

Education standards have always played a huge factor in the success of our workforce (including productivity and unemployment). If Alabama truly blows at education, the rest of the country has to pay for that by them contributing far lower tax contributions...as well as taking government benefits of all types. And why should innocent kids of Alabama pay the price just because they were born there?

So my favorable views of states rights where they're best suited (ie, cultural issues) should remain. But education is one area where I would think twice.

(1) try lowering the drinking age without losing highway dollars
(2) try implementing a voter ID without DoJ coming down on you
(3) try not having a speed limit on the interstate without losing highway dollars

There's many instances where the federal "suggestion" is accompanied by a fiscal fist. The states, wanting or needing the federal dollars, easily acquiesce to the federal demands. Sad. But it seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

(1) try lowering the drinking age without losing highway dollars
(2) try implementing a voter ID without DoJ coming down on you
(3) try not having a speed limit on the interstate without losing highway dollars

There's many instances where the federal "suggestion" is accompanied by a fiscal fist. The states, wanting or needing the federal dollars, easily acquiesce to the federal demands. Sad. But it seemed like a good idea at the time.

IMO there are many bad laws and your point is largely valid (restrictions on voter participation is of national concern).

Having said that, I still don't think I'm a full-stop buyer on education.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Chicago makes the news again: http://www.chicagotribune.com/enter...ter-musicians-strike-20120922,0,5585573.story

As for the cause of the negotiation breakdown, Lester said, “It was the final economic proposal (from the association), which still required us to take a decrease in compensation and exorbitant increases in the cost of health care. We’re hopeful that we will continue negotiating soon."

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Chicago makes the news again: http://www.chicagotribune.com/enter...ter-musicians-strike-20120922,0,5585573.story

They just want it all, eh?

To all libstains, I recommend watching the Simpsons episode "Trash of the Titans". It'll put what we're saying into perspective.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I'm always amused by knuckledraggers when they start on their "feds should have no role in education" idiocy. Look people, that ship has already sailed so like a lot of other things kindly join the 21st century along with the rest of us. The reason why the feds have to enforce standards is because in many a conservative rural area (think Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, or Texas) kids aren't taught properly and you can't depend on the local yokels who consider science to be a dirty word to do so. Much like you can't segregate nor fund different school districts differently, something that was happening a few generations ago. As I often say, this is yet another conservative idea with no practical application in the real world.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I'm always amused by knuckledraggers when they start on their "feds should have no role in education" idiocy. Look people, that ship has already sailed so like a lot of other things kindly join the 21st century along with the rest of us. The reason why the feds have to enforce standards is because in many a conservative rural area (think Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, or Texas) kids aren't taught properly and you can't depend on the local yokels who consider science to be a dirty word to do so. Much like you can't segregate nor fund different school districts differently, something that was happening a few generations ago. As I often say, this is yet another conservative idea with no practical application in the real world.

They shouldn't.

The reason Education is so fubar right now is there is no competition among the states. There is a giant sucking sound for jobs to Texas right now. Think about how screwed up that is.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I'm always amused by knuckledraggers when they start on their "feds should have no role in education" idiocy. Look people, that ship has already sailed so like a lot of other things kindly join the 21st century along with the rest of us. The reason why the feds have to enforce standards is because in many a conservative rural area (think Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, or Texas) kids aren't taught properly and you can't depend on the local yokels who consider science to be a dirty word to do so. Much like you can't segregate nor fund different school districts differently, something that was happening a few generations ago. As I often say, this is yet another conservative idea with no practical application in the real world.

Federalism isn't "the new hotness". As Ancient Rome, the British empire, 20th century Russia, and present-day Europe have shown, it's "old and busted".

 

[Rover]

Federalism isn't "the new hotness". As Ancient Rome, the British empire, 20th century Russia, and present-day Europe have shown, it's "old and busted".

A nonsensical answer that has nothing to do with the question at hand (feds role in education). Again, try to keep up, will ya, and if its too hard perhaps you'd consider posting on another thread?

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Federalism isn't "the new hotness". As Ancient Rome, the British empire, 20th century Russia, and present-day Europe have shown, it's "old and busted".

Maybe if we paid our workers what workers make in Malawi like you suggested last week, that would fix things. I hear they've got a great educational system.

For whatever you want to say about the education system, have there really been any serious complaints about curriculum other than the people that want wizard and fairy stuff taught instead of science?

 

[Rover]

Maybe if we paid our workers what workers make in Malawi like you suggested last week, that would fix things. I hear they've got a great educational system.

For whatever you want to say about the education system, have there really been any serious complaints about curriculum other than the people that want wizard and fairy stuff taught instead of science?

Exactly. For all the talk about central control being evil, there are plenty of places in the world where education IS handled solely at the local level, not the least of which Somalia which didn't have a federal govt for 20 years. According to Flaggy's hypothesis, Somalia should be leading the world in education then, followed by the jungle areas of the Amazon. Funny how the exact opposite is true.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Exactly. For all the talk about central control being evil, there are plenty of places in the world where education IS handled solely at the local level, not the least of which Somalia which didn't have a federal govt for 20 years. According to Flaggy's hypothesis, Somalia should be leading the world in education then, followed by the jungle areas of the Amazon. Funny how the exact opposite is true.

OK smartass, what's my hypothesis? Go ahead and say it; I'll inform you of its accuracy (or potential lack thereof).

 

[Rover]

OK smartass, what's my hypothesis? Go ahead and say it; I'll inform you of its accuracy (or potential lack thereof).

Glad you asked! Your hypothesis is that if we only could get the federal gubmint out of education, they would stop enforcing certain standards of learning (and standardized testing). Once schools were totally under local control, they could get back to teaching fundamentalist principles with a biiiiig tilt towards conservative thought! So, science class would be replaced by some weird Creationalism studies, and history class would be replete with discussion of how Reagan single handedly won the Cold War, GWB was misunderstood and how brave righties stopped Kenyan born Prez Obama from handing over the US to the Islamists! I'll let you fill in the blanks as far as what Social Studies would be covering.

With no standards, no problem! Forget about being able to read the Classics - a few Ann Coulter books would suffice. When the Neo Conservative Kingdom on Earth is upon us, this knowledge will really come in handy after all!

How close did I get? I'm thinking 90% as you may choose to substitute Ayn Rand for Ann Coulter!

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

They shouldn't.

The reason Education is so fubar right now is there is no competition among the states. There is a giant sucking sound for jobs to Texas right now. Think about how screwed up that is.

Huh? I know there's a competition for companies between Virginia and Maryland. If it's cheaper to operate in State X over State Y, companies should consider a move, if the relocation proves economical.

Or, would you have Uncle Sam regulate the migration of people within the United States?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Huh? I know there's a competition for companies between Virginia and Maryland. If it's cheaper to operate in State X over State Y, companies should consider a move, if the relocation proves economical.

Or, would you have Uncle Sam regulate the migration of people within the United States?

I think you missed my point. That's ok.