Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

You're the only one talking about partisan results here.

And no, it's not 'easy' to re-count punch cards - the mechanical counting is less precise than optical scan, and the manual recount is more subjective - thanks to those hanging chads.

See evidence of confusion from Ohio:



And higher error rates from automatic counting compared to optical scan in California:



The error rate is only twice as high - no big deal, right?



We're talking about the recount process and the laws surrounding it. What does that have to do with who was running in those races? My point about process still stands if this were an election to determine the state's favorite color. Your rhetoric seems to fall apart there...



That may be, but that's not the argument. The argument is that optical scan ballots are better than punch cards. Easier to use, more accurate, etc.



And the reason the Florida recount was a mess was because their laws and their technology of choice were a mess. The reason the Minnesota recount was not is because the laws are clear and the technology works much better.

What does Ventura have to do with election technology? Jesus H. Christ, how many non-sequitirs can you fit in one post?

I'll huff, and I'll puff and I'll blooooow your house down. Be careful, bub, you'll hurt yourself. The reason why Ventura is importrant is that he was elected, to anything, in that fairyland called Minnesota. And presumably the laws which allowed high school dropouts to register on the day of the election so they could vote for their WWF hero are still on the books. THAT's why it's important to mention that imbecile Ventura in any discussiion of how things work in Minnesota.

I'll say this, sonny, you're a hard man to agree with, as I've done now three times. Evidently it's not sufficient to agree with you in part. I have to agree with you chapter and verse going all the way back to Runnymede. I don't feel up to it, so I'll stop agreeing with you. Stick your optical scan voting devices where the sun don't shine. There now, put on your jammies, brush your teeth and go to bed. The Minnesota recount of whch you'so proud probably put the wrong guy in the senate. No problem for you, evidently, the "process" worked as it was designed to, right? Recounts with punch cards are easy, unless like you, you want to count improperly executed ballots. Hanging chads? Out. Dimpled chads? Out. Swinging chads? Out.Maybe our problem here is that people in Florida are dumber than the rest of the country, where punch card balloting has been used for years with no problem.

Really, what do I care about error rates among morons in casting their ballots? Cry me a river for dumb bells. Have it your way, Florida was a "mess" not because Al Gore is one of the biggest partisan hacks on God's earth, but because their "process" wasn't as good as the "process" in Minnesota. Yaahoo, how lucky we all are to have the Minnesota "process" to look to in conducting recounts. Or are there some other areas where Minnesota "process" leads the way? Gimme a break.

How many more attempts are you going to make to beat me into submission? "He's just gotta agree with me that optical scan is superior to punch cards. Why I've cited studies, and everything. Why doesn't he get it?" Save your enthusiasms for someone else. Hear?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

I liked Jesse if only for the fact that he p*ssed EVERYONE off in the legislature. It was brilliant.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Why wouldn't you take Jewish refugees in? Though your willingness to take us Arizonans in is appreciated. How big is your spare bedroom?

It was a reference to the west dragging their feet on Jewish emigrees during the 30's.

You wouldn't like our spare bedroom, our maid is Mexican*. We surround them.

(* Actually, our maid is Brazilian, speaks four languages, and is, IINM, a chemical engineer. Anyway, she's a great conversationalist but a lousy maid.)

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

our maid is Brazilian, speaks four languages, and models for Victoria's Secret

Your wife is OK with this?
I heard on NPR (yeah, I know, but it's still the best radio we've got) some brief highlights of Obama getting laughed off John Stewart's stage last night. Anyone see this? Are even the lefty comedians taking a flying leap off the bandwagon (or did they go on to kiss and make up)?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Your wife is OK with this?
I heard on NPR (yeah, I know, but it's still the best radio we've got) some brief highlights of Obama getting laughed off John Stewart's stage last night. Anyone see this? Are even the lefty comedians taking a flying leap off the bandwagon (or did they go on to kiss and make up)?

My maid does not model for Victoria's Secret, as far as my wife knows. You must have read about that happening at a large midwestern university.

Stewart's been criticizing Obama for years. There's a knee-jerk response that anyone who dared criticize the GOP must have been carrying water for the Dems, but not everybody is as hamfisted as Fox or MSNBC.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Your wife is OK with this?
I heard on NPR (yeah, I know, but it's still the best radio we've got) some brief highlights of Obama getting laughed off John Stewart's stage last night. Anyone see this? Are even the lefty comedians taking a flying leap off the bandwagon (or did they go on to kiss and make up)?

I don't know, I'm just watching it now. But this doesn't make it sound like he was laughed off the stage or anything.

Also, the last 3 Daily Show guests: Austin Goolsbee, Ted Kaufman (D-Delaware), and Obama. I like the Daily Show, but let's not pretend they're unbiased okay?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

I also enjoyed Obama taking shots at the filibuster in the interview.

For a rebuttal, let's go to 2005 Barack Obama.

Everyone in this chamber knows that if the majority chooses to end the filibuster, if they choose to change the rules and put an end to democratic debate, then the fighting and the bitterness and the gridlock will only get worse. Now I understand that Republicans are getting alot of pressure to do this from factions outside of the chamber, but we need to rise above the ends justify the means mentality
...
If the right of free and open debate is taken away from the minority party, then millions of Americans who ask us to be their voice if fear that the already partisan atmosphere in Washington will get be poisoned to the point that we will not be able to agree on anything and doesn’t serve anybody’s best interest and it certainly isn’t what the Patriots who founded this democracy had in mind.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Your wife is OK with this?
I heard on NPR (yeah, I know, but it's still the best radio we've got) some brief highlights of Obama getting laughed off John Stewart's stage last night. Anyone see this? Are even the lefty comedians taking a flying leap off the bandwagon (or did they go on to kiss and make up)?

Yeah, he didn't get laughed off the stage. Stewart didn't softball it, but if you were expecting an O'Reilly/Beck-esque shoutfest, well, clearly that wasn't going to happen, either.

Also, the last 3 Daily Show guests: Austin Goolsbee, Ted Kaufman (D-Delaware), and Obama. I like the Daily Show, but let's not pretend they're unbiased okay?

Stewart admits he's a liberal. The bigger difference between him and most others is he's civil. Go watch his interview with Condoleeza Rice from last week.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Stewart admits he's a liberal. The bigger difference between him and most others is he's civil. Go watch his interview with Condoleeza Rice from last week.

Hey, like I said, I like Stewart. I think his interviews are usually good, though I feel he gets off topic a little easily with some guests. I know he admits he's a liberal.
I'm pointing out that anyone who says Stewart treats both parties equally (which some people definitely think), is totally off base. Here's the last week before the elections, and he's having all liberals on, trying to rally the base.

 

[blockski]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Also, the last 3 Daily Show guests: Austin Goolsbee, Ted Kaufman (D-Delaware), and Obama. I like the Daily Show, but let's not pretend they're unbiased okay?

1. Who is pretending the Daily Show is without bias?

2. Did you watch Stewart interview Obama last night? Stewart asked far more tough questions than most TV interviews I've seen.

Hey, like I said, I like Stewart. I think his interviews are usually good, though I feel he gets off topic a little easily with some guests. I know he admits he's a liberal.
I'm pointing out that anyone who says Stewart treats both parties equally (which some people definitely think), is totally off base. Here's the last week before the elections, and he's having all liberals on, trying to rally the base.

Stewart definitely treats both parties equally in terms of the questions he asks. In terms of guests? Probably not, but that's not his job either (this is Comedy Central, remember) and it's not like your average back-bench Republican is going to want to go in front of that audience.

Point being - Stewart's interviews and his comedy are equal opportunity. How many people here were arguing that the Daily Show was going to go downhill when Obama was elected, or that Stewart wouldn't make fun of him? Have they been watching recently?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

1. Who is pretending the Daily Show is without bias?

2. Did you watch Stewart interview Obama last night? Stewart asked far more tough questions than most TV interviews I've seen.



Stewart definitely treats both parties equally in terms of the questions he asks. In terms of guests? Probably not, but that's not his job either (this is Comedy Central, remember) and it's not like your average back-bench Republican is going to want to go in front of that audience.

Point being - Stewart's interviews and his comedy are equal opportunity. How many people here were arguing that the Daily Show was going to go downhill when Obama was elected, or that Stewart wouldn't make fun of him? Have they been watching recently?

I already said I watched the interview with Obama. If you'll notice, I didn't criticize Stewart for it, I thought it was reasonably fair. That's not the point.

As for who's saying it's without bias, or at least equal opportunity in its bias, just a few months ago on here (I can't use the search to find it), there was a discussion about Stewart, and I'm nearly positive that someone made that very argument. Maybe I'm misremembering.

As for Republicans not wanting to go in front of that audience, he's had plenty of Republicans on the show, and I don't think someone like Cantor would have said no if he had been asked to come on this week.

 

[blockski]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

As for Republicans not wanting to go in front of that audience, he's had plenty of Republicans on the show, and I don't think someone like Cantor would have said no if he had been asked to come on this week.

Really? I absolutely think Cantor would have said no. One week out from an election? You'll notice that of the three Dems that visited the show this week, none of them were up for election this year.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Really? I absolutely think Cantor would have said no. One week out from an election? You'll notice that of the three Dems that visited the show this week, none of them were up for election this year.

Right, but Cantor is "up for election" like Nancy Pelosi is "up for election" in San Francisco this year. He won 62% of the vote in '08, and will probably win by more this year. He also was on the show 3 weeks ago.
All I'm saying, and this is maybe a little too conspiratorial of me, is that it sure looks like there was a concerted effort to get Dems on the show in the final week before the election. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Stewart does ask questions that are more on point than any of the politicos. Part of that is he can get away with it, he's a comedian. Part of it is he's smarter than most pundits and he has an audience of top tier college students / recent college grads who are MUCH smarter than the typical audience.

There isn't nearly the upside for a top level* Republican to go on TDS because their constituents, if they've heard of it at all, dismiss it as America-hating blahdy-blah like they do anything that conflicts with their worldview. OTOH, even if you're going to get ripped it's great for a Dem to go on it because it has a cool factor score that's higher than any other possible media outlet.

I think back benchers of either party would love to go on purely for the exposure. Colbert's "Better Know a District" doesn't seem to have trouble getting conservatives from Ma and Pa Kettle land to go on -- it's better than an inerview with a high school kid in the local Pennysaver.

* The exception is, of course, when you're plugging a book. That's when the Newts and Tancredos go on.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

The biggest thing was that everybody went "need technology now!!!" so they all went for the suped-up computer..... 'cause you know, computers will solve anything. They went head long into this instead of relying on proven methods. When I was in Massachusetts we used optical scanners... no big deal. I haven't voted in Virginia yet so we'll have to wait and see. With the opticals you have a single record, they are harder to mass produce with values on them (don't get me wrong, its not impossible), you can double check the results by counting by hand, etc. There is no real reason to use touch screens except if you're using some exotic voting method (preference voting, etc.) or your registered candidates list isn't available soon enough for a printing (which is just dumb).

It's going to be exactly like what you expect. The touch-screens here are perfectly easy to use. It's just that nagging lack of transparency.

 

[blockski]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Right, but Cantor is "up for election" like Nancy Pelosi is "up for election" in San Francisco this year. He won 62% of the vote in '08, and will probably win by more this year. He also was on the show 3 weeks ago.
All I'm saying, and this is maybe a little too conspiratorial of me, is that it sure looks like there was a concerted effort to get Dems on the show in the final week before the election. Maybe I'm wrong.

A month ago, Cantor can go on the show wearing the hat of the guy who's likely to be #2 in the House next year. In that case, he's wearing his national, GOP hat.

One week out from an election, however, every **** Representative will be back in their district campaigning. In this case, he's wearing his local, VA 7th District hat.

Kepler is right - there's no upside for a representative to go on the show this close to an election, or in front of a potentially hostile audience. You'll note that later that night, there was a Democrat on the Colbert Report (Tom Perriello), but he did so via satellite.

Is it a conspiracy to get Dems on? No. The more likely explanation is that they extended invites to a lot of people here in DC, but no one running for office is still in DC with a week to go until election day.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

It was a reference to the west dragging their feet on Jewish emigrees during the 30's.

You wouldn't like our spare bedroom, our maid is Mexican*. We surround them.

(* Actually, our maid is Brazilian, speaks four languages, and is, IINM, a chemical engineer. Anyway, she's a great conversationalist but a lousy maid.)

You're right about the west dragging its feet on Jewish emigres, the tragedy of the St. Louis comes to mind.We had our own issues with anti-semitism in those days, albeit not the lethal maniacal kind we saw in the Reich. And while I'm certain you didn't intend to blame the west for lack of prescience when it comes to the Holocaust, some might not understand about how accurate hindsight is. After all, the Final Solution and the Wannsee Conference that put it in motion, was far in the future.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

I already said I watched the interview with Obama. If you'll notice, I didn't criticize Stewart for it, I thought it was reasonably fair. That's not the point.

As for who's saying it's without bias, or at least equal opportunity in its bias, just a few months ago on here (I can't use the search to find it), there was a discussion about Stewart, and I'm nearly positive that someone made that very argument. Maybe I'm misremembering.

As for Republicans not wanting to go in front of that audience, he's had plenty of Republicans on the show, and I don't think someone like Cantor would have said no if he had been asked to come on this week.

Big difference Stewart on the 'left' or pretty much any Fox or radio talk show pundit on the right. We're saying we're not sure if there was bias for Stewart...on any of these conservative talk shows, there would be no question and there's never a debate about biased interviews.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

It's going to be exactly like what you expect. The touch-screens here are perfectly easy to use. It's just that nagging lack of transparency.

And the probable ease of hacking. And, if it doesn't produce paper records, the probability that if it were hacked, there would be no proof of that whatsoever.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XVII: Do You Take Your Tea Party with One Sugar or Two?

Hey, like I said, I like Stewart. I think his interviews are usually good, though I feel he gets off topic a little easily with some guests. I know he admits he's a liberal.
I'm pointing out that anyone who says Stewart treats both parties equally (which some people definitely think), is totally off base. Here's the last week before the elections, and he's having all liberals on, trying to rally the base.