Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

[ScottM]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

But those people don't know whats best for them .

Based on the time I've spent at WalMart, and to some degree Target as well, I'm almost glad voter participation is around 50% most cycles.

 

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

I usually don't agree with Scooby but this analysis is spot on.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Right now, the government doesn't see one red cent from under the table transactions and other "underground" transactions (to include illegal stuff, like the drug trade), because babysitters and drug dealers aren't exactly filling out W-4 forms.

Since the FairTax is a tax on consumption rather than productivity, those people are taxed for the first time. Say a drug dealer makes 100k a year selling weed. He doesn't pay a dime to the government, because what he does is illegal. Under the FairTax, however, when he goes to spend that money on anything legal (which everyone has to do at some point), from a burrito at 7-11 to a brand new sports car, he's paying the consumption tax.

??? - But isn't he paying that tax on burritos and cars anyway? Furthermore, what's to stop him from just bartering his drugs for the new sports car? Or better yet just paying cash for it for a low amount and "trading" some of his product for it?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

You mean this definition?

"According to the Ethnographic Atlas Codebook, of 1231 societies noted, 186 were monogamous. 453 had occasional polygyny, 588 had more frequent polygyny, and 4 had polyandry. At the same time, even within societies which allow polygyny, the actual practice of polygyny occurs relatively rarely. There are exceptions: in Senegal, for example, nearly 47 percent of marriages are multiple.[7] To take on more than one wife often requires considerable resources: this may put polygamy beyond the means of the vast majority of people within those societies. Such appears the case in many traditional Islamic societies, and in Imperial China. Within polygynous societies, multiple wives often become a status symbol denoting wealth and power. Similarly, within societies that formally prohibit polygamy, social opinion may look favorably on people maintaining mistresses or engaging in serial monogamy."

Try again.

Dude you don't get it, his "recorded history" is basically the European Record. Remember, Europe was the first at everything, just ask them.

In THEIR recorded history marriage was between a man and a woman. So what if most of the rest of the world didnt say that throughout history, Europe did so it must be the way it is. Those other cultures are ignorant savages!

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

??? - But isn't he paying that tax on burritos and cars anyway? Furthermore, what's to stop him from just bartering his drugs for the new sports car? Or better yet just paying cash for it for a low amount and "trading" some of his product for it?

The point with FairTax is that you get rid of the income tax (which won't affect the drug dealer, but will put more money in normal people's pockets) and then jack up the sales tax (by adding a Federal sales tax) which will bring most people back to about where they started, but will have a net "negative" effect on the money in the drug dealer's pocket.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Always like the "because its always been this way" argument. Plante, are we to take it that you're okay with slavery too, since you know, its been a common practice for 99% of recorded history.

We still have slavery on this planet because somebody can make a buck from it and the underclass does not have a champion who is willing/able to defend their rights.

But on a different note, isn't a prisoner a slave of the state?? They have limited freedom, limited rights, and do what they are told to do 24/7. They may receive substandard wages for doing menial jobs. Depending on the prisoner he/she may receive their freedom before they die.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Dude you don't get it, his "recorded history" is basically the European Record. Remember, Europe was the first at everything, just ask them.

In THEIR recorded history marriage was between a man and a woman. So what if most of the rest of the world didnt say that throughout history, Europe did so it must be the way it is. Those other cultures are ignorant savages!

Only if they did not want to reproduce. You still need both sexes to unite to procreate.

I think history has shown that a stable family unit seems to be the best way to raise children. What that stable unit is depends on the culture.

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

??? - But isn't he paying that tax on burritos and cars anyway? Furthermore, what's to stop him from just bartering his drugs for the new sports car? Or better yet just paying cash for it for a low amount and "trading" some of his product for it?

The Fair Tax is a consumption tax proposed at a 23% rate, so you would be capturing a lot more of the underground economy money in taxes. Those dealing in the underground economy still buy new cars, new houses, food, etc. They would pay the Fair Tax on anything (new) purchased at the retail level. It wouldn't get rid of the underground economy, but would capture a lot more money in taxes from that economy.

The Fair Tax would be a replacement tax, not an additional tax. It was designed to replace personal and corporate income taxes, payroll taxes, capital gains taxes, estate taxes, self-employment taxes, etc., and was designed to be revenue neutral.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

The Fair Tax is a consumption tax proposed at a 23% rate, so you would be capturing a lot more of the underground economy money in taxes. Those dealing in the underground economy still buy new cars, new houses, food, etc. They would pay the Fair Tax on anything (new) purchased at the retail level. It wouldn't get rid of the underground economy, but would capture a lot more money in taxes from that economy.

The Fair Tax would be a replacement tax, not an additional tax. It was designed to replace personal and corporate income taxes, payroll taxes, capital gains taxes, estate taxes, self-employment taxes, etc., and was designed to be revenue neutral.

Imagine all of the foreign businesses who'll rush to open up shop in the United States if they knew they didn't have to pay any corporate income taxes or payroll taxes (which are, in the end, paid for by consumers anyway in the form of higher prices). Imagine all of the foreign investment, both in banks and in our markets, from people looking for a tax haven, especially from Europe. Want a stronger economy tomorrow? Enact the FairTax today.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Only if they did not want to reproduce. You still need both sexes to unite to procreate.

I think history has shown that a stable family unit seems to be the best way to raise children. What that stable unit is depends on the culture.

Any procreation argument ignores the many heterosexual couples that are unable to have children or chose not to. So a requirement for marriage under such an argument would, to be fair and not just an arbitrary standard, require that not only are you capable of it, but you actually do it. But no one who ever makes such an argument will call for a marriage inspector to see if a couple is being a good baby producer or it'll be revoked.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

We still have slavery on this planet because somebody can make a buck from it and the underclass does not have a champion who is willing/able to defend their rights.

Socialist.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Only if they did not want to reproduce. You still need both sexes to unite to procreate.

And this has what, exactly, to do with legalizing gay marriage? Will there be a single hetero couple who decides NOT to marry or procreate because gays can marry? I'd really love to see a couple go on record and state that this is their situation.

I think history has shown that a stable family unit seems to be the best way to raise children. What that stable unit is depends on the culture.

Exactly. And legalizing gay marriage would lead to thousands of new stable family units. So what's the issue?

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

In the end...you have to spend it someplace.

But certainly not all of it. Which means the rich person making $400,000 a year will be paying less percentage wise than a person making $40,000/year since the person making $400k/year can save 3/4ths of his income.

Even with the supposed "prebate" to protect the poor - that merely shifts the "screwed over" line to the middle class once again. So instead of the person making $40,000/year paying the most in taxes as a percentage basis, the person making $75k/year will be.

Also, as much as this country needs to save more and spend less, such a shift should be gradual and not immediate. Switching to the "Fairtax" will almost assuredly cause major economic issues as people suddenly have a huge disincentive to spending. Given that consumer spending is something like 2/3rds-3/4ths of the economy, yeah, the current unemployment rate might seem nice by comparison for awhile.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

But certainly not all of it. Which means the rich person making $400,000 a year will be paying less percentage wise than a person making $40,000/year since the person making $400k/year can save 3/4ths of his income.

Uh... so what? Classism FTW?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

No, but you'll probably see a lot of Congressmen......you know, arguing loudly and incessently over trivial issues......and of course, there's the occasional uncontrolled outburst.

I thought you were going to say, "... you know, the women willing to give a ride back to their place to a generous lobbyist."

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Uh... so what? Classism FTW?

I'm pretty sure the argument is about relative burden. We draft 20 year old men because they make more valuable soldiers, we should tax the rich because they make more valuable tax payers.

But to be honest there are about 12 simultaneous cross-arguments going on right now and I am very confused who my allies are in each. It's like the 30 Years War in here.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

I'm pretty sure the argument is about relative burden. We draft 20 year old men because they make better soldiers, we should tax the rich because they make better tax payers.

In other words, tax the rich more, because we can get more from them. Somehow this is "fair" rather than just taxing everyone equally.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

agree. f. I agree with Kepler. my life is going down the tubes!

Don't worry, I'll say something inconsiderate eventually and you'll hate me again.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

Uh... so what? Classism FTW?

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. How does that make it a "fair tax"?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XI: Turn And Face The Strange

In other words, tax the rich more, because we can get more from them. Somehow this is "fair" rather than just taxing everyone equally.

It all depends what an equal burden means. Even a flat tax recognizes this principle.

I'm all for a flat consumption tax if we can make it work. I'd rather charge you 25 cents on the dollar for your Porche and leave your income alone. But I would think a consumption tax would generate an enormous underground economy.