Obama V: For Vendetta

[ScottM]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Sounds about right. The last six years or so have been pretty much a race to the bottom. The current situation is similar to 2004 - the Republicans were circling the bowl and the Democrats were simply too inept to do anything about it. Two years later the Republicans' ineptitude had simply surpassed that of the Democrats. Now the question is whether the GOP can get their act together or whether they can slow their stupidity to a rate lower than that of the Democrats, and see if they get passed again.

I wouldn't hold my breath for either party to rise to the occasion anytime soon.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I wouldn't hold my breath for either party to rise to the occasion anytime soon.

Both parties have always rose to the occasion. Now if they would only do that politically as well....

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

That's a relief...Scott likes his own polls.

But he does make a very important point...Rasmussen bases his surveys on 'likely voters'. This will instantly and radically skew his results. Polling likely voters is valuable for understanding the impact on potential elections...but it is a poor indicator of true national sentiment. Afterall, a president serves all US citizens whether they voted for him or not.

What really needs to be looked at is the trend. As long as the polling method is the same each week the trend is the important thing, not necessarily the pure number.

Right now all the polls have Obama in essentially the same downward trend and that has to be concerning to this administration.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

"If they attack you, they must fear you....."

Would the GOP have a better strategy by not criticizing the President directly, but pointing out what the GOP stands for.

The idea is let the Demoncrats step on the mines without any prodding from the GOP and then when 2010 and 2012 roll around say this is what we believe, and this is what they did. We'll be different, and if not, throw us out in the next election because we broke your trust.

In other words, do exactly what the Dems did in 2006 and 2008. Hey, it worked.

The Dems are getting caught in a vise between a lack of courage of convictions and the GOP pretending it's still in power. If the first 8 months taught the Dems anything it's that there is no possibility for bipartisanship (the GOP feels they would be foolish to grant the Dems any legitimacy at all when their rhetoric to their base is This is the End Times!). The next 8 months ought to be about laying the groundwork for the midterms by forcing every vote to the floor and getting all the Republicans and the handful of Blue Dogs on record for all their nay votes. 2010 will then be about who "did nothing." If the country sees where the Dems are trying to go as worse than going nowhere, then the Dems will lose strength. If the country sees the GOP and the Blue Dogs as sabotaging the 2008 election results by stonewalling, then they'll be punished.

The most serious mistake the Dems can make is continuing to parlay and allowing their opponents to have it both ways. Make them defend the status quo by voting to continue it -- force them on record. Then we'll have a real contrast rather than a game of Beltway BS. My guess is if the Dems put it in stark terms, the GOP will overplay their hand wildly by continuing to encourage the screamers, the deathers, the birthers, etc, and Obama will come off looking like Mr. Smith trying to reform Washington but being plowed under by the Machine.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

..and for what it's worth -- that big conservative Tim Russert (r.i.p.) always talked about rasmussen polls in his former jobs. people in the business like his stuff because he talks to likely voters.

I believe they're robocalling voters mookie. No live talking involved.

Kep,

Good analysis. Obama should have reached out to the other side as he did -up to a certain point. Then, when senators a negotiating one day but sending out fund raising letters saying give me money because I'm blocking the bill the next day, its time to give that up. Like the stimulus package, all he need do is what's happening now, which is focusing on Snowe and Collins to give the package a bipartisan feel, and make the deal with them.

Get a bill passed, have some huge week long celebration complete with friendly media coverage, and then move on and put the GOP on the defensive with some tough votes on immigration for example. IMHO, Obama's biggest problem isn't the details of the proposed bill and this and that, its that its dragged on for so long. For Dems, they need to 1) get it done and 2) then bask in the improving economic conditions over the next year.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

In other words, do exactly what the Dems did in 2006 and 2008. Hey, it worked.

The Dems are getting caught in a vise between a lack of courage of convictions and the GOP pretending it's still in power. If the first 8 months taught the Dems anything it's that there is no possibility for bipartisanship (the GOP feels they would be foolish to grant the Dems any legitimacy at all when their rhetoric to their base is This is the End Times!). The next 8 months ought to be about laying the groundwork for the midterms by forcing every vote to the floor and getting all the Republicans and the handful of Blue Dogs on record for all their nay votes. 2010 will then be about who "did nothing." If the country sees where the Dems are trying to go as worse than going nowhere, then the Dems will lose strength. If the country sees the GOP and the Blue Dogs as sabotaging the 2008 election results by stonewalling, then they'll be punished.

The most serious mistake the Dems can make is continuing to parlay and allowing their opponents to have it both ways. Make them defend the status quo by voting to continue it -- force them on record. Then we'll have a real contrast rather than a game of Beltway BS. My guess is if the Dems put it in stark terms, the GOP will overplay their hand wildly by continuing to encourage the screamers, the deathers, the birthers, etc, and Obama will come off looking like Mr. Smith trying to reform Washington but being plowed under by the Machine.

Gad we're agreeing! Somebody check the heavens for signs of the impending apocalypse!

If you were the GOP leadership would you sign on to any of this? I wouldn't, not as it is presently constructed. BHO's biggest problem in the whole shebang may not be the GOP, but his own parties congressional and committee leadership which may be more idealogical than he is .

Until the Demoncratic caucus (or the voters) eject Peolosi and Reid, plus a few more of the waaay left committee chairs, then El Presidente is in danger of having a short tenure at 1600 PA Ave, NW.

So, yes, let's make every vote a roll call vote and get everyone's positions on the table (floor?). We'll get our chance to give a thumbs up/down in November, 2010 and 2012.

Newt in 2012. THEN we'll have a campaign worth debating!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

It's a good plan, although I wouldn't use immigration to put the GOP on the defensive. Immigration only hurt the GOP because they were in power and so had to try to do something responsible. Now that they're out, they can stand on the sideline and scream and posture. Frankly, it's a complete Third Rail, and there is no unified progressive position on it (amnesty helps our new friends from the south but screws over unskilled native labor; national security concerns about border control are valid but often get ignored by immigration-indulgent positions).

If the Dems want to put the GOP on the defensive, they should vote dramatic expansion for funding for education, health research, senior care, day care, and veterans benefits -- things the country favors and the GOP always votes down. Pass a millionaires tax to pay for a second G.I. Bill. Give the GOP the fun of explaining to Ma and Pa Veteran why they and their kids shouldn't get a college degree because asking the Romneys to make sacrifices for their country is com'nist.

Move the Overton Window as far left as possible.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

It's a good plan, although I wouldn't use immigration to put the GOP on the defensive. Immigration only hurt the GOP because they were in power and so had to try to do something responsible. Now that they're out, they can stand on the sideline and scream and posture.

If the Dems want to put the GOP on the defensive, they should vote dramatic expansion for funding for education, health research, senior care, day care, and veterans benefits -- things the country favors and the GOP always votes down. Pass a millionaires tax to pay for a second G.I. Bill. Give the GOP the fun of explaining to Ma and Pa Veteran why they and their kids shouldn't get a college degree because asking the Romneys to make sacrifices for their country is com'nist.

...and just resolve healthcare.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

...and just resolve healthcare.

...and break the laws of physics.

I mean, if it's just that easy...

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

...and break the laws of physics.

I mean, if it's just that easy...

everything is easy when you care enough

sort of the carebears philosophy of gov't... everything works if you try hard enough.

 

[ScottM]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

If the Dems want to put the GOP on the defensive, they should vote dramatic expansion for funding for education, health research, senior care, day care, and veterans benefits -- things the country favors and the GOP always votes down. Pass a millionaires tax to pay for a second G.I. Bill. Give the GOP the fun of explaining to Ma and Pa Veteran why they and their kids shouldn't get a college degree because asking the Romneys to make sacrifices for their country is com'nist.

Move the Overton Window as far left as possible.

Good idea, but with a number of people already predicting double-digit losses for House Dems next year, I don't see any more major "tax and spend" initiatives as helping anyone who doesn't live represent either coast.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

That is GREAT!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

In other words, do exactly what the Dems did in 2006 and 2008. Hey, it worked.

The Dems are getting caught in a vise between a lack of courage of convictions and the GOP pretending it's still in power. If the first 8 months taught the Dems anything it's that there is no possibility for bipartisanship (the GOP feels they would be foolish to grant the Dems any legitimacy at all when their rhetoric to their base is This is the End Times!). The next 8 months ought to be about laying the groundwork for the midterms by forcing every vote to the floor and getting all the Republicans and the handful of Blue Dogs on record for all their nay votes. 2010 will then be about who "did nothing." If the country sees where the Dems are trying to go as worse than going nowhere, then the Dems will lose strength. If the country sees the GOP and the Blue Dogs as sabotaging the 2008 election results by stonewalling, then they'll be punished.

The most serious mistake the Dems can make is continuing to parlay and allowing their opponents to have it both ways. Make them defend the status quo by voting to continue it -- force them on record. Then we'll have a real contrast rather than a game of Beltway BS. My guess is if the Dems put it in stark terms, the GOP will overplay their hand wildly by continuing to encourage the screamers, the deathers, the birthers, etc, and Obama will come off looking like Mr. Smith trying to reform Washington but being plowed under by the Machine.

Good in theory, but everyone knows the Dems are way too spineless to do anything like that. They can't get out of their own way long enough to become that organized. They were handed the government including 60 votes in the senate which basically mutes the GOP and the Dems STILL bow to the pressure. They have no cohesion, no leadership and no friggin balls. They have been whining for years about all these grand ideas they have and how the country will be better off with them, now they literally can pass them all, they can push through an entire agenda and they can't fall over themselves fast enough to screw the whole thing up.

They are shooting themselves in the foot because everything they ran on they are backing out of now that they can push it through. The gays are ticked at Obama because he hasnt repealed Dont Ask, Dont Tell despite promising too. The Dems are losing the Health Care debate despite that being a tentpole of the past election and part of why they got into office and have all the power. They havent gotten us out of Iraq or taken steps to do so, Gitmo is still open last I checked despite Obamas decree...its like the Dems don't know what to do when they aren't yelling about other people in power. They are the dog chasing the car they dont know what to do if they ever actually caught it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Good idea, but with a number of people already predicting double-digit losses for House Dems next year, I don't see any more major "tax and spend" initiatives as helping anyone who doesn't live represent either coast.

Because "borrow and spend" works so much better.

The perennial criticism is always when liberals are out of power they can't enact their policies, and when they're in power they shouldn't. Bah -- either they do what they promise, or screw them. They have gone down in flames so many times by trying not to alarm the natives. Enact law, make changes, take the judgment. Far better than three rushes into the center of the line and then punt. That timidity is why they've been losing the field position battle to the GOP for 25 years -- the right runs an aggressive passing game, whether their QB is great or inept. The left runs their dull, zombie rushing offense. No wonder they always get stacked up at the line -- they never stretch the D by throwing downfield.

No surprise all the good coaches are conservatives.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

...and break the laws of physics.

I mean, if it's just that easy...

ya...at some point, it will be what it will be. As important as it may be, I don't think you sink the entire ship on it. Git er done!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Yup the Dems run the Prevent Defense which of course only prevents victory! They need to remember that the average voter has a short memory. Voters didnt care about any of the BS Bush Jr. slung, didn't care that he and his cronies accused McCain of fathering a black baby (in fairness McCain also forgot and even embraced Jr. which I believe lost him any shot at the election) and accused another Vietnam Veteran of hating the military and being a coward. He did all that while he spent Vietnam in the National Guard and yet the voters still reelected him.

The Dems are those guys who play roulette and only put down the minimum bet and only bet the colors figuring the odds are better they will do ok. They never take a chance for fear of losing even though the victory will be 10 times better.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Because "borrow and spend" works so much better.

The perennial criticism is always when liberals are out of power they can't enact their policies, and when they're in power they shouldn't. Bah -- either they do what they promise, or screw them. They have gone down in flames so many times by trying not to alarm the natives. Enact law, make changes, take the judgment. Far better than three rushes into the center of the line and then punt. That timidity is why they've been losing the field position battle to the GOP for 25 years -- the right runs an aggressive passing game, whether their QB is great or inept. The left runs their dull, zombie rushing offense. No wonder they always get stacked up at the line -- they never stretch the D by throwing downfield.

No surprise all the good coaches are conservatives.

Why don't we practice (less) tax and don't spend?

Have we become too dependent on the government breast and can't now take care of ourselves? What does that say about us??

 

[ScottM]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Because "borrow and spend" works so much better.

The perennial criticism is always when liberals are out of power they can't enact their policies, and when they're in power they shouldn't. Bah -- either they do what they promise, or screw them. They have gone down in flames so many times by trying not to alarm the natives. Enact law, make changes, take the judgment. Far better than three rushes into the center of the line and then punt. That timidity is why they've been losing the field position battle to the GOP for 25 years -- the right runs an aggressive passing game, whether their QB is great or inept. The left runs their dull, zombie rushing offense. No wonder they always get stacked up at the line -- they never stretch the D by throwing downfield.

No surprise all the good coaches are conservatives.

You would have thought that the O-man would be a better QB, but it seems like he's just carrying the clipboard on the sidelines and cheering his team on to mediocrity while The Three Stooges (aka Pelosi, Reid and Waxman) run the backfield.

Frankly, I expected more of him when I voted for him. If he's not more decisive, his approval ratings will be racing Congress' to the basement.

 

[French Rage]

Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Teach teh contraversie dammit!