What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

  • Thread starter Thread starter Priceless
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Priceless said:
I tried posting several points at once but you weren't able (or willing) to follow along, so for your sake we're going to go one at a time.
Click to expand...

I can follow along just fine, I just am not going to put a lot of effort into interacting with someone who serially misrepresents what I say and when I start to even probe a little bit on having further dialogue about it tries to misrepresent what I said and meant time after time.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Bob Gray said:
I can follow along just fine, I just am not going to put a lot of effort into interacting with someone who serially misrepresents what I say and when I start to even probe a little bit on having further dialogue about it tries to misrepresent what I said and meant time after time.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to understand what you said. Obviously you said what I quoted below because that is a direct quote from you in this very thread.

I have asked you repeatedly which liberal said Clinton was a fiscal conservative. You have offered none.

Do you disagree with any of that, and please feel free to explain what I've summed up there that is incorrect.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Bob Gray said:
I can follow along just fine, I just am not going to put a lot of effort into interacting with someone who serially misrepresents what I say and when I start to even probe a little bit on having further dialogue about it tries to misrepresent what I said and meant time after time.
Click to expand...

Dude, he quoted you directly in post #540...we all saw what you posted and had a hardy laugh at your lack of any truth or understanding beyond your true biases. We even got a good chuckle by your attempts to try and change the story or spin your way out of it whilst acting all high and mighty that anyone dare question the GREAT AND POWERFUL BOB. Now you just look stupid, that is worse than foolish, you look like a two year old throwing a tantrum.

Just admit you were wrong...stop pretending that just because you ignore what you said everyone doesnt know you said it. Or admit you are a fraud that just trolls because you dont like liberals. Your petulance is now becoming tedious.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

dxmnkd316 said:
Whaaa? Is this a shot at me?
Click to expand...

I don't see a smiley face so if that's a serious question, I think Priceless was extending the author's analogy. But while a newly minted grad might have a $60k starting salary and (for whatever insane reason) buy a $350k house, he wouldn't be able to spend $20k over his salary every year for the next 10 years, adding another $200k to his debt.

Well, I suppose he could, if he found a Chinese loanshark willing to lend him the money. But I don't think that would be a healthy life decision.

Fiscal conservatives are right when they say the debt and continuing deficits are the number one threat to our economic stability. Anybody who takes steps in the right direction should be encouraged at this point, even if their motives are cynically political. The Republicans were a narrow, international elite's Useful Idiots for the last 30 years and did incalculable damage to our country. Perhaps we can co-opt them as America's Useful Idiots for the next few. I don't think the Christian Jihad is going to carry a lot of weight in that party when important things like jobs are at stake, and voters might even figure out that the American middle class is paying to support a global empire that not only doesn't help them, but demands the sacrifice of their sons in resource wars every generation so a few connected families can build a sixtieth summer home.

There's a limit to gullibility, even of patriots.
 
Last edited:
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Loon.

May I recommend if you're doing your own homework, don't do a Google search. It seems to me that Google is pretty deeply in bed with the government. Remember, maybe this is explaining why Google is being kicked out of all the other countries. Are they just a shill now for the United States government?
Click to expand...

Indeed! Don't do a Google search! Don't do an anything search! Just watch Glenn Beck and it will turn out okay. Promise.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Priceless said:
I'm trying to understand what you said. Obviously you said what I quoted below because that is a direct quote from you in this very thread.

I have asked you repeatedly which liberal said Clinton was a fiscal conservative. You have offered none.

Do you disagree with any of that, and please feel free to explain what I've summed up there that is incorrect.
Click to expand...

ok, I'll try this once, and any further trolling from you and I'm done. I wouldn't say Clinton was a fiscal conservative of the rank of Jeff Flake, Paul Ryan, or others who that is their main calling card. But, at the end of the day, the budget was in decent shape during Clinton's years and spending didn't go through the roof as it has recently. So he was relatively fiscally conservative, certainly compared to either Bush or Obama. And by balancing the budget while keeping spending relatively in check, he deserves some credit (as do the Republicans of the time in Congress), while recognizing that they were all fortunate to have a good economy and some bubble activity boosting capital gains and all. It would have been easy to spend a lot more, given the rosey economic outlook of the times back then, and they didn't. It's my opinion that inherent in arguing how great Clinton did with the budget, that there is an argument being made that he was relatively fiscally responsible and even a bit on the conservative side on spending. That's the nuance that I was referring to, at least in brief. Taking as a given that there were budget surpluses (which again, depending on how you do the overall government accounting, you can find different answers, but that's another discussion for another day).


Handy, get a grip on yourself.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Bob Gray said:
ok, I'll try this once, and any further trolling from you and I'm done. I wouldn't say Clinton was a fiscal conservative of the rank of Jeff Flake, Paul Ryan, or others who that is their main calling card. But, at the end of the day, the budget was in decent shape during Clinton's years and spending didn't go through the roof as it has recently. So he was relatively fiscally conservative, certainly compared to either Bush or Obama. And by balancing the budget while keeping spending relatively in check, he deserves some credit (as do the Republicans of the time in Congress), while recognizing that they were all fortunate to have a good economy and some bubble activity boosting capital gains and all. It would have been easy to spend a lot more, given the rosey economic outlook of the times back then, and they didn't. It's my opinion that inherent in arguing how great Clinton did with the budget, that there is an argument being made that he was relatively fiscally responsible and even a bit on the conservative side on spending. That's the nuance that I was referring to, at least in brief. Taking as a given that there were budget surpluses (which again, depending on how you do the overall government accounting, you can find different answers, but that's another discussion for another day).
Click to expand...

The bottom line is what you wrote was wrong. No liberal accused Clinton of being a fiscal conservative. We reminded you that he did, in fact, preside over a balanced budget. In your world, no liberal could possibly balance the budget, so he must have been a fiscal conservative. That's on you. So if you're getting sick of it, stop thinking that way. :)

There. That's settled.

Next?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Priceless said:
The bottom line is what you wrote was wrong. No liberal accused Clinton of being a fiscal conservative. We reminded you that he did, in fact, preside over a balanced budget. In your world, no liberal could possibly balance the budget, so he must have been a fiscal conservative. That's on you. So if you're getting sick of it, stop thinking that way. :)

There. That's settled.

Next?
Click to expand...
Clinton was a liberal, but he governed in many ways as a centrist, not as a liberal. But, again, nuance is something wasted on the board. People just plaster simplistic labels and don't go beyond to realize that few black and white labels really fit well. But, I tried.

Now cue Handy's next meltdown at me.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Priceless said:
I'm trying to understand what you said. Obviously you said what I quoted below because that is a direct quote from you in this very thread.

I have asked you repeatedly which liberal said Clinton was a fiscal conservative. You have offered none.

Do you disagree with any of that, and please feel free to explain what I've summed up there that is incorrect.
Click to expand...

I thought it had been said hundreds of times on these threads, by blue people, that Clinton had the budget in order and it was Bush who took us into the red ink. Is that the same as saying he was a fiscal conservative? Maybe not literally, but the point was raised, to summarize the various contexts from my point of view, to show that we were responsible with the budget under Clinton and irresponsible under Bush. In a series of leaders who cannot hold themselves to a budget, what do you call the one guy who did? even if it was during a tide of rising revenues, most of these knuckleheads would have just spent even more.

compared to Reagan, the Bushes and Obama, is Clinton the most fiscally responsible? That may be a better term than conservative.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

pirate said:
I thought it had been said hundreds of times on these threads, by blue people, that Clinton had the budget in order and it was Bush who took us into the red ink. Is that the same as saying he was a fiscal conservative? Maybe not literally, but the point was raised, to summarize the various contexts from my point of view, to show that we were responsible with the budget under Clinton and irresponsible under Bush. In a series of leaders who cannot hold themselves to a budget, what do you call the one guy who did? even if it was during a tide of rising revenues, most of these knuckleheads would have just spent even more.

compared to Reagan, the Bushes and Obama, is Clinton the most fiscally responsible? That may be a better term than conservative.
Click to expand...

Fiscally responsible, sure. Fiscally conservative, no.

That implies liberals can't be responsible. Heaven forbid we describe someone who presided over a balanced budget as a liberal. It's as unimaginable as overthrowing a Middle East dictator through peaceful protest. That runs counter to the notion that everyone in the ME is a Muslim raghead who wants to kill us righteous 'Merikans.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Priceless said:
Fiscally responsible, sure. Fiscally conservative, no.

That implies liberals can't be responsible. Heaven forbid we describe someone who presided over a balanced budget as a liberal. It's as unimaginable as overthrowing a Middle East dictator through peaceful protest. That runs counter to the notion that everyone in the ME is a Muslim raghead who wants to kill us righteous 'Merikans.
Click to expand...
Tell me, since you see such bright lines dividing things these days, where is the definitive line between what is fiscally responsible and what is fiscally conservative?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Bob Gray said:
Tell me, since you see such bright lines dividing things these days, where is the definitive line between what is fiscally responsible and what is fiscally conservative?
Click to expand...

My guess would be that responsible means a balanced budget regardless of size, so someone who increases the budget by 30% would nevertheless be responsible if the revenue supported such expenditures.

Conservative means a smaller budget. I'd argue conservative also implies balanced, though that's debatable in this context.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

unofan said:
My guess would be that responsible means a balanced budget regardless of size, so someone who increases the budget by 30% would nevertheless be responsible if the revenue supported such expenditures.

Conservative means a smaller budget. I'd argue conservative also implies balanced, though that's debatable in this context.
Click to expand...

stop helping Priceless! make him answer his own questions! :p

not a bad answer, though I'd think one could be a fiscal conservative and have your main goal being a balanced budget, rather than a smaller budget. Just wanted to call Priceless on his false precision.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top