Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title
I wasn't going to respond, but what the heck
actually nothing personal here. I think we both were misunderstand each others points.
And if you had paid attention, you'd know that my post were directed at someone specific when we had a "debate" about the caliber of this year's team back in December.
Partially agree. A few of the posters felt Norwich was good, but wanted to see how they would do against good competition. It wasn't so much a debate of how good Norwich was, but how good their opponents were. (UMB and Babson specific). When Plattsburgh went on their 2nd half run, they really had not played anyone good at 6-0-1. Williams and Buff State both at home maybe. I stated I reserved my true opinion until they played in Oswego and at Geneseo.
That was my only statement about Norwich after UMB and Babson. We knew they were good, but they hadn't played anyone yet to tell us how good. I also said if they went 4-0 after break I'd say they were back, they did, and exactly why I mocked people who wanted to question their legitimacy based off of their schedule.
If you had paid attention 12 months ago, you'd know why I was angry. I had countless arguments about the state of the program, trying to counter the knee jerk reactions of a bunch of "fans". In 2015-16, Norwich was struck by an injury bug the likes of which I haven't seen. Add the Niezgoda situation to the equation and they had a down year - by our lofty standard.
Again, 100% agree. Very few programs can have the lofty expectations like Norwich. I would say Oswego, SNC, and maybe Adrian now are on the short list with Norwich. Yes many programs want it, but few can say the expect it. Norwich is/was not going to become Middlebury. It was these same "fans" who I considered the bandwagon dumpers. Lose a game to Skidmore, the sky is falling. Beat UMB, oh my god we're going back to the Norwich dynasty. That was my original mock. I applaud you for locking at the "other" stuff that goes on and not just a score - a la injury bug. We all have our homers who you can't say anything negative against a team, and that wasn't my intention. While I have my issues with McShane, I can also respect the accomplishments of not only this season but his program in general.
When that team was at full strength, they blew out Wesleyan and Plattsburgh and went to OT with the defending national champs (Trinity).
See this is partially my only disagreement. You want to speak of knowing the game, and it's okay to make excuses as to why Norwich was "losing" some games due to the injury bug, but fail to acknowledge that A) it was 2-2 going into the third in which Plattsburgh was skating with or an argument can be made was outplaying Norwich. Pelletier then had two quick goals. to make it 4-2 and then the lame boarding call on Hermans and the following PP goal. Radisa made it a 2 goal game again with 6 minutes to go and then Pelletier got his HT empty net goal...again, a woodshed beating would be 4+ goals or when a team has more goals then the other had shots on goal. The overall 60 minute game was a lot closer than a 3 goal (1 empty net) win. B) back to the injury bug, memory serving me, Plattsburgh was without a couple players in that game. I want to say the lost a defensmen during as well. They also started Brady, who was more like this years first semester Brady and not the Brady we saw the second half of this year. Plattsburgh was a good team at 20-4-3, but a lot of his hung on Finney.
Trying to point that out to a bunch of keyboard athletes who were convinced that Norwich had been caught up to and/or passed by was an absurd exercise. I attempted to use logic, reason, and even history to back up my points, but was met with a gaggle of Chicken Littles (the sky is falling!). So, yeah, I've been angry about a few things.
And again, Amen (to a point). I don't think saying teams like Babson, UMB, Skidmore, ect ect have "caught up" to Norwich is a slight on Norwich in any sense. As I pointed out too (using logic, reason, and even history) Plattsburgh was much like Norwich back in the 90's. Was it 3 seasons of an undefeated SUNYAC run? Teams like Buff State, Brockport, and Cortland were known as "point night". It wasn't a matter of if Plattsburgh will win, but by how much. Same can be said for Norwich and teams like UMB and Skidmore. Those teams, through better coaching, more resources, better teams ect ect now give Norwich a game and or win a game or two and even a Championship. Do I think those said teams are now on the same "level"? No. It's still Norwich and the rest of the NEHC. But much like Plattsburgh and the SUNYAC, there is no more "nights off" and if you take the night off and or have an injury bug, things like not winning the title can happen. People need to realize this and understand this. It doesn't mean Norwich is falling backwards.
Prior to joining this forum, I was never a big "I told you so" guy, but some of you folks have really brought it out of me. In the spirit of that sentiment, I'd like to note that I posted, on this message board, that the 2008-09 team lost 8 games (along with the leading scorer), made an early exit from the conference tourney, and rebounded to win the national championship (with only one loss) the following season. Man, you should've read the ridicule that statement drew! However, here we are. Rebounding from a 8 loss season to win a national championship, with only one loss.
That is the difference between a school like Norwich, Oswego, SNC, Plattsburgh, ect ect....few schools can take a "bad" season and come back. Norwich has the history and backing to know sooner or later they will rebound. Oswego will lose the majority of their team next year, am I going to pick them last in the SUNYAC? Nope. A team with a tradition of winning will always garnish the respect of recruits and having so many holes will allow them the opportunity to play at a high end DIII school. Thomas, Forkey, Cotnoir.....Thomas and Cotnoir are still on my list of some of the best Cadets. Without those three recruits however, I don't think Norwich makes it to Lake Placid that year.
Maybe instead of picking a fight with a fellow Norwich fan, you (and others) should pay attention when someone might actually have some insight and know what they're talking about. It's not about stats, records, SOS, or any other crap. It's about using your eyes to evaluate a team, and most importantly, it's about the guys in the room.
And my eyes told me UMB was a mediocre team. I'd say 12-11-3 with one of the weakest schedules in DIII...... I was right as well. And for the record, you can go back and read, I said several times that Norwich was not a scrub. Anyone who wanted to call Norwich a scrub team needs their heads examined. But at the same time, you need to step back from the chest pounding and see just what people like NU Pastime (a very open minded NU poster IMO) who like many of us, wanted to believe Norwich was this good, but was "optimistic?" because they hadn't played a team like SNC yet this season. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make you any less of a fan. That's all I was trying to get across. I had little to no issue with Norwich, it was the other poster who wanted to say UMB was a good team because he saw them play. Yet 12-11-3 (40th win%) is right about mediocre IMO, but they could compete with lower end DI teams :rollseyes: Like I said, yes Norwich looked good (for the most part) needing OT to beat Middlebury, then tieing Middlebury, and several close games thru the season people wanted to believe, but there was some doubt. I don't see how that's a hard thing to see. The 1 loss was great, but they were not dominating teams like other past Norwich great teams did. I am talking on the scoreboard and on the ice. Speaking as a Plattsburgh fan, there were years you were "afraid" to see Norwich. This year was not one of them. It doesn't mean they weren't a good "team", because IMO that's why they won, they were the best "team".
