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Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

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Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Now that you've scored your political points, when you're done doing your pathetic touchdown dance, I suggest you get professional help.
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With all due respect, I think this is off the mark.

I don't think SD and I agree on a whole lot with respect to guns. As I've stated often before on this board, I think gun control in general, especially as practiced or proposed in this country, is stupid.

Let people buy as many guns as they want. Keep track, by serial number, who owns them. Make people responsible for what happens as a result of their guns. Let private homeowners or businesses decide whether they want to refuse to allow people onto their property with guns. That's about it.

But this woman was stupid.

It's sad she's dead. It's sad her kid won't have a mom, and will have to go through whatever pain awaits the kid for the rest of it's life. If the two year old had shot another customer, I'd be the first one here demanding prosecution of the mother, if for nothing else, being too stupid to let out in public.

This wasn't the kid's fault. It wasn't the gun's fault. It wasn't society's fault. A woman, in freaking Idaho of all places, decides to take a loaded gun to a WalMart and leave it with her two year old. Why? Couldn't get the chainsaw fired up?

This is no different than the idiot in Arizona who agreed to hand a loaded uzi to a little girl.

There is no joy in her death, John Donne and all. But the message commentators should be writing is this. You want to own a handgun, fine. But if you are going to be stupid with it, don't expect me to come to your funeral.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

Too many Americans are well versed in their rights but ignorant of their responsibilities. Guns are a particularly bad example because of the 2nd Amendment. I'm confident the vast majority of (legal) gun owners scrupulously follow the appropriate procedures to keep their weapons safe and out of the hands of children. However, some don't.

Some years ago I interviewed a Houston surgeon who had treated several child victims of shootings. He said since the kids generally examine guns close to their face, when it goes off they suffer head wounds. If they survive they risk hideous facial damage or brain damage or both.

It's clear gun owners need to go the extra mile, every single time, to protect themselves and others from their weapons. Any slip up can result in death or serious injury.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

ScoobyDoo said:
Gun People crack me up.
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ScoobyDoo said:
There's a big difference between mishandled and GROSS negligence.
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Sorry if I don't agree with your breezy, reflexive opinion that all gun owners are illiterate Neanderthals who deserve what's coming to them, "because Darwin". This isn't the first time you've acted in a hyperbolic manner on the topic, and I know it won't be the last.

EDIT: And that goes for Kepler too, though I know he'll probably laugh it off.
 
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Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Sorry if I don't agree with your breezy, reflexive opinion that all gun owners are illiterate Neanderthals who deserve what's coming to them, "because Darwin". This isn't the first time you've acted in a hyperbolic manner on the topic, and I know it won't be the last.

EDIT: And that goes for Kepler too, though I know he'll probably laugh it off.
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You realize that one of your "certified" instructors put an UZI in a 12 year old girls hands and got himself killed, right? This is one of your "trained" professionals. And now you have a woman who supposedly has a conceal and carry permit and she's too ****ing stupid to not get herself shot with her own gun by her own two year old.

People need to wake the **** up.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

Old Pio said:
Too many Americans are well versed in their rights but ignorant of their responsibilities. Guns are a particularly bad example because of the 2nd Amendment. I'm confident the vast majority of (legal) gun owners scrupulously follow the appropriate procedures to keep their weapons safe and out of the hands of children. However, some don't.
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But according to all the reports, she has been well-trained in handling guns and firearm safety. Up until this incident, she would have been a model for responsibility. If this is what happens to the NRA poster mom , is it really any surprise so many people want these firearms reduced (or removed) in society? Especially given their ability to rain death and destruction upon dozens of innocent people? The second amendment also mentions "well-regulated." Maybe we should start to focus on that part of the language.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

ScoobyDoo said:
You realize that one of your "certified" instructors put an UZI in a 12 year old girls hands and got himself killed, right? This is one of your "trained" professionals. And now you have a woman who supposedly has a conceal and carry permit and she's too ****ing stupid to not get herself shot with her own gun by her own two year old.

People need to wake the **** up.
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I don't claim the NRA as my own. I am not a member, and never have been. That organization is a bunch of hackjob pro lobbyists, with Mr. "Jack-booted Government Thugs" as their cult leader.

This is just another example of presumptuous smearing on your part. I've already agreed with the majority that the woman involved should have taken further precautions, and did not. I firmly agree with firearm education programs, background checks, and I would also support mandatory owner registration/licensing of semi-automatic weapons of all types, and a ban on so-called "private sales" of those weapons, though it will probably never happen. None of that, is going to prevent tragedies. It's a sad fact of life.

However, stating that "Gun People" give you the lulz, just confirms your biases. So I don't know why I even bother at this point.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

Priceless said:
But according to all the reports, she has been well-trained in handling guns and firearm safety. Up until this incident, she would have been a model for responsibility. If this is what happens to the NRA poster mom , is it really any surprise so many people want these firearms reduced (or removed) in society? Especially given their ability to rain death and destruction upon dozens of innocent people? The second amendment also mentions "well-regulated." Maybe we should start to focus on that part of the language.
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Or, possibly, "all reports" weren't even close to accurate. This woman clearly was not well trained. She may have had training. It may have even been expertly provided. But it didn't stick.

But then again, training had nothing to do with this. You don't need any training to know you don't give a 2 year old a loaded handgun. All you need is the common sense at least as great as a bowl of bean dip.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

SJHovey said:
Or, possibly, "all reports" weren't even close to accurate. This woman clearly was not well trained. She may have had training. It may have even been expertly provided. But it didn't stick.

But then again, training had nothing to do with this. You don't need any training to know you don't give a 2 year old a loaded handgun. All you need is the common sense at least as great as a bowl of bean dip.
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Nods.

I'm all for guns. But stupid people need to friggin' learn. Stupid people like this mom.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

So you want it both ways? The fat guy would be alive if he wasn't breaking the law, just like the women would be alive if she wasn't carrying a loaded weapon. Both were their choices and both were totally preventable.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

walrus said:
So you want it both ways? The fat guy would be alive if he wasn't breaking the law, just like the women would be alive if she wasn't carrying a loaded weapon. Both were their choices and both were totally preventable.
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No, I'm just willing to accept there are shades of grey. Unfortunately the stupidity of this woman was so off the charts it's as close to black and white as you can get on this planet.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

Brenthoven said:
I'm sad she died, don't get me wrong. But I will also thank Darwin.
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People keep saying that but she already passed on her genes so she doesn't qualify for a Darwin Award...
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

Why would an presumably intelligent woman (researcher at a national lab) feel that she needs to carry in Walmart in Idaho? I'd say that says as much about the world we're in as her.

Next, what model handgun was she carrying? If she was trained and educated (as it seems she was as she was permitted), did she choose a poor carry weapon for her circumstance? With kids around I'd say she should've been carrying a revolver or a Smith & Wesson M&P series semi-auto or a Ruger semi-auto. Those have thumb switch safeties plus staged triggers.

Me? I carry a Springfield XDM Compact chambered in .40 caliber. The XDM, similar to Glocks, does not have a thumb switch safety. My XDM has a back strap safety (proper grip) and a staged trigger; Glocks only have staged triggers. I like my XDM the way it is: chambered, grip, point, trigger. If I pick it up and point it at something it's purposeful. But I don't have two year olds around me either. And I'm relentless in that if it's not on me it's in the vault.

If she was carrying a semi-auto, why was it chambered ("racked in"). I tend to carry my XDM with a loaded magazine, and a spare magazine, but not racked (meaning there's no round in the firing chamber). I know that I've been "scolded" by many (including cops and former cops) that it's stupid to not have it chambered and ready. I consider not chambered a safety ... and I also know the sound of someone racking a semi-auto, like the sound of actuating the pump on a shotgun, are distinctive sounds that tend to work in your favor.

Basically, what I'm saying is this: if your knee-jerk reaction is a paleo-"gun bad" (and you know who you are) you aren't helping; actually, you're no better than this. I guess I'm saying you don't ask blue hairs driving Buicks to make rules for NASCAR.
 
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Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

The Sicatoka said:
If she was carrying a semi-auto, why was it chambered ("racked in"). I tend to carry my XDM with a loaded magazine, and a spare magazine, but not racked (meaning there's no round in the firing chamber). I know that I've been "scolded" by many (including cops and former cops) that it's stupid to not have it chambered and ready. I consider not chambered a safety ... and I also know the sound of someone racking a semi-auto, like the sound of actuating the pump on a shotgun, are distinctive sounds that tend to work in your favor.
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Would have to agree with you on that.
 
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.

Terry Rutledge, Veronica's father-in-law, told The Spokesman-Review that the boy unzipped the special gun compartment in the woman's purse where the weapon was kept while she was looking at clothing.

Terry Rutledge said his daughter-in-law did not put the weapon "loosely into her purse."

Victoria Rutledge had a concealed weapons permit, and guns were a big part of Rutledge's life, her father-in-law said.

"She was not the least bit irresponsible," Terry Rutledge said in a brief interview with The Associated Press. He complained about people using the incident to attack his daughter-in-law.
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http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/287184501.html

So, now it is not irresponsible to carry a loaded gun within reach of a two year old and get shot with it.

What exactly is ANYONE responsible for anymore? Anything?
 
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