Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

[Patman]

The police won't stop them because they aren't breaking the law. The same law that says those Westboro idiots can picket funerals says these clowns can picket outside a Planned Parenthood clinic. We have protesters in our town, even though the PP here is not even equipped to perform abortions and is only a health clinic. The city of Portland has a long history of protests so the city council is nervous about doing anything that will infringe on that right in any way. I don't think they will even consider a new law, much less vote for one.

It's a difficult thing, in spirit no one should impinge on the business but in spirit the right to protest shouldn't be denied.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

But, he felt the need to make it worse by giving free food to people who carried pro-abortion signs...

Pro-abortion? I don't know anyone that is pro-abortion. I don't recall anyone standing outside a maternity ward telling expectant mothers on their way into the hospital they should abort the fetus, but maybe I missed something.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

I think you're closer to the mark with pusillanimous city councilmen. Surely there are ordinances about, say, blocking a public thoroughfare. If there was a will, there would be a way. Not to shut down the protests, but to establish some common sense boundaries. Common sense rarely applies to people who are "on a mission from God." I thought the same thing during the Vietnam War when anti-war types, "pregnant with celestial fire", took over campuses, tore up offices and burned down building. All justified by their First Amendment rights. They never considered the First Amendment rights of anyone else. That's the fascist MO.

I do so enjoy the usual protests though. Even the ones I agree with are stupid. Meet in Monument Square (a large public space) and "march" to City Hall - a perilous journey of almost 2000 feet.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

But, he felt the need to make it worse by giving free food to people who carried pro-abortion signs...

I would normally agree with what OP said, but since he chose to insert himself into the situation and escalate it, I don't feel sorry for him at all.

Truthfully, what the guy really should have done instead of fanning the flames there would have been installing some heavy duty sprinklers out in front of his business and just flipped em on whenever they started to hang out in front of his business a little too much.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

But, he felt the need to make it worse by giving free food to people who carried pro-abortion signs...

I would normally agree with what OP said, but since he chose to insert himself into the situation and escalate it, I don't feel sorry for him at all.

Where he stands, to me, is irrelevant. Everyone has the same claim on the First Amendment. From where I sit, what is relevant is whether the decline in his business is because pro-abortion types and their protesting have driven customers away. Or have anti-abortion types decided they don't want to trade at his place. Not to mention that owning any kind of restaurant is pretty risky (Gordon Ramsey demonstrates that every week). But his P & L isn't relevant here. Only if, as has been asserted, these demonstrations (and counter demonstrations) have had a negative impact on his bottom line. I don't much care for protesters, of any kind, period. It's always struck me as preening.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

Pro-abortion? I don't know anyone that is pro-abortion. I don't recall anyone standing outside a maternity ward telling expectant mothers on their way into the hospital they should abort the fetus, but maybe I missed something.

Please. The issue is abortion. Not adoption. Not contraception, abortion. And while abortion supporters don't have to demonstrate against a procedure which is legal, they do walk right up to the line and shout across it: "We love abortion, it's as American as apple pie." And IMHO, that's had a corroding effect on our society. The Democrat party can, I believe, fairly be described as the abortion party. Let's see if I can accurately state their position: Any female, of any age, or mental or medical condition, can have an abortion anytime she wants (right up to the moment of birth), for any reason or no reason, and if she's a minor her parents can't have anything to say about it (or even be notified) and if she's married, her husband, similarly has no claim on knowing what's planned or right to object. And if she can't afford it, someone else will pay for it, if necessary a Catholic entity. And anyone who demurs from any part of that is trying to "drive women into back alleys."

The "Pro abortion" people have so bought in to the abortion agenda, they shamelessly and unforgivably remained silent during the Gosnell trial. A modern day Mengele running an abattoir, yet the abortion disciples were worried the case would reflect badly on them and their gospel. Well, IMO, their behavior here did reflect badly on them. As well as officials, whose job it was to make certain appropriate medical standards were met who looked the other way. I'm guessing because they didn't want to rock the boat of "women's health." If I hear one more sanctimonious abortion advocate refer to "coat hangers" I think I'll switch to gin. The anti-abortion side hasn't exactly covered itself in glory either, as I've mentioned.

We have a controversial issue, yet both sides claim they're "for" something. Bosh. The issue is abortion. One side favors it with no apparent restrictions. The other side opposes it. Most Americans are somewhere in the middle.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

Subscribed because I would have titled the thread:

"Nice Planet 5: You're all a Bunch of C*nts"

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

MNS is on to something. His business suffered because he was as big of an a-hole as the Pro-Life protestors. And let's take a serious look at where his business suffered: Friday and Saturday breakfast. Not exactly the prime money-making times for a sandwich shop. This isn't his only business, this one was suffering, and a group that he is more passionately against than anyone in this thread provided a convenient scapegoat. And a newspaper owned by the family of our left-wing Congresswoman is clearly going to color this story to best suit their candidate and their agendas. As is their right since the microphone is theirs.

I wondered the same thing about the breakfast takings on Fridays and Saturdays (Gordon Ramsey again). It could be he was in trouble anyway but the losses on those days and times was the difference. Don't know. I just know as a businessman he pays and collects taxes and notwithstanding anyone else's right to protest, similarly has a right to expect mobs of any sort won't block access to his business. And apparently on a regular basis, too. Who knows, this could be a cynical charade. A decision that's already been taken. And he's just trying on his martyr suit. Normally, city governments do what they can to protect local businesses. It's not like in front of his shop is the only place in town to carry a sign. I just don't like protestors. Most of 'em wouldn't be caught dead doing anything constructive to advance their causes. They just want to be there when the TV cameras show up.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

Truthfully, what the guy really should have done instead of fanning the flames there would have been installing some heavy duty sprinklers out in front of his business and just flipped em on whenever they started to hang out in front of his business a little too much.

Back when I lived there, businesses at Monument Square began playing really, really bad music over the loud speakers to get people to stop congregating outside their store...of course, that might also drive away your own clientele...

 

[ericredaxe]

I wondered the same thing about the breakfast takings on Fridays and Saturdays (Gordon Ramsey again). It could be he was in trouble anyway but the losses on those days and times was the difference.

I would think that Saturday morning could be a pretty busy time for a place that serves breakfast...

I can see why he would have to close... Those people will harass anyone they can... All you have to do is be walking by and they are shoving photos of aborted fetuses in your face...

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

We have a controversial issue, yet both sides claim they're "for" something. Bosh. The issue is abortion. One side favors it with no apparent restrictions. The other side opposes it with no apparent exceptions. Most Americans are somewhere in the middle.

fyp

Kinda important part that you left out...

Most of your post was more or less accurate from a right slant point of view. I think there's more nuance in the positions on the left than you do, but I assume it's the give an inch thing.

I agree that most Americans are somewhere in the middle. I certainly am.

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

Please. The issue is abortion. Not adoption. Not contraception, abortion. And while abortion supporters don't have to demonstrate against a procedure which is legal, they do walk right up to the line and shout across it: "We love abortion, it's as American as apple pie." And IMHO, that's had a corroding effect on our society. The Democrat party can, I believe, fairly be described as the abortion party. Let's see if I can accurately state their position: Any female, of any age, or mental or medical condition, can have an abortion anytime she wants (right up to the moment of birth), for any reason or no reason, and if she's a minor her parents can't have anything to say about it (or even be notified) and if she's married, her husband, similarly has no claim on knowing what's planned or right to object. And if she can't afford it, someone else will pay for it, if necessary a Catholic entity. And anyone who demurs from any part of that is trying to "drive women into back alleys."

I don't think that "pro-abortion" is a fair term.. nobody is "pro-abortion"... nor do i think that "pro-life" is an accurate term for those who would want to make abortion illegal. "Pro Choice" or "Anti Choice" are really the most accurate terms. I'd personally consider myself both "pro-life" and "pro-choice".

I'd also say that your description of the Democratic party position is only fair if you describe the republican party's position as: "No female of any age, medical or mental condition should have the option of terminating a pregnancy for any reason. This would include victims of rape as well as women whose life or health could be put in danger by complications from a pregnancy. If abortion continuies to be legal than any minor or wife should not be given that choice without consent from her parents or husband even if they are in an abusive situation or had been raped by that father or husband. Meanwhile, we are going to resist any efforts to reduce unwanted pregancies by trying to limit sex education in schools and doing whatever we can to make it more difficult for women to obtain contraception."

As you stated, most of us are somewhere in the middle.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

I'd also say that your description of the Democratic party position is only fair if you describe the republican party's position as: "No female of any age, medical or mental condition should have the option of terminating a pregnancy for any reason. This would include victims of rape as well as women whose life or health could be put in danger by complications from a pregnancy. If abortion continuies to be legal than any minor or wife should not be given that choice without consent from her parents or husband even if they are in an abusive situation or had been raped by that father or husband. Meanwhile, we are going to resist any efforts to reduce unwanted pregancies by trying to limit sex education in schools and doing whatever we can to make it more difficult for women to obtain contraception."

Gold

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

I don't think that "pro-abortion" is a fair term.. nobody is "pro-abortion"... nor do i think that "pro-life" is an accurate term for those who would want to make abortion illegal. "Pro Choice" or "Anti Choice" are really the most accurate terms. I'd personally consider myself both "pro-life" and "pro-choice".

I'd also say that your description of the Democratic party position is only fair if you describe the republican party's position as: "No female of any age, medical or mental condition should have the option of terminating a pregnancy for any reason. This would include victims of rape as well as women whose life or health could be put in danger by complications from a pregnancy. If abortion continuies to be legal than any minor or wife should not be given that choice without consent from her parents or husband even if they are in an abusive situation or had been raped by that father or husband. Meanwhile, we are going to resist any efforts to reduce unwanted pregancies by trying to limit sex education in schools and doing whatever we can to make it more difficult for women to obtain contraception."

As you stated, most of us are somewhere in the middle.

Well, I guess it's a matter of semantics. "Nobody is "for" abortion." What, exactly, does that mean? Does it mean that none of the pro-abortion crowd thinks there's ever a time where a female shouldn't have an abortion? I haven't made a study of it, but in my experience generally, the people who are most enthusiastic about any perceived encroachment on the right to abortion access (such as the ones who were rendered mute by "Dr." Gosnell's horrors) are, in fact, "for abortion." And they wear cute little outfits and do "C-jumps" in their support of it. I believe most people who say "nobody's for abortion" say that to assuage the guilt they feel over the corrosion of our society, of which the inevitable consequence was "Dr. Gosnell" (and only the most starry eyed optimist would suggest he's unique).

I'd be curious as to how many Americans truly oppose abortion in the comparatively rare instances of rape, incest and life of the mother. Or would if a young woman they loved faced that choice. While some people are certainly sincere in saying that, I believe many (most?) would "come to Jesus" when the time came. Your description of the Republican position is accurate, but doesn't alter what the Democrats are all about. Personally, I'm sick of this whole business. It is Democrats who turned an obscure 30 year old coed into a "national" figure because she wanted a Catholic university to provide her with birth control. It is Democrats who have turned a Texas legislator into a national figure because of her "brave, principled" stand against a proposed change in the state law. A change which most Americans support. And a change which is generally the law of the land in Europe.

Randall Terry, NARAL, the whole bunch of 'em, can go to h*ll as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

Gold

You're evidently comfortable with the state sticking its nose into the arrangements of families, such as providing a medical service for children without the parents even knowing, let alone approving. Apart from emergencies, parents are always required to approve of medical procedures on minors. But abortion is the one exception. And I'm not comfortable with that, even though there are clearly going to be a small number of cases where that approach is appropriate. It's a waste of our time to discuss this, because the die has been cast. But the whole ethos here is "pro abortion," and I'm not comfortable with it.

See, many of you guys have so completely divided the world into two camps: for abortion, against abortion, you find it hard to respond to anyone who says maybe we've gone too far in this business, with anything other than boiler plate rhetoric. While I believe abortion is an appropriate medical procedure. I also believe this culture clash has led us down the wrong road. And has had disastrous consequences for us.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

You're evidently comfortable with the state sticking its nose into the arrangements of families, such as providing a medical service for children without the parents even knowing, let alone approving. Apart from emergencies, parents are always required to approve of medical procedures on minors. But abortion is the one exception. And I'm not comfortable with that, even though there are clearly going to be a small number of cases where that approach is appropriate. It's a waste of our time to discuss this, because the die has been cast. But the whole ethos here is "pro abortion," and I'm not comfortable with it.

See, many of you guys have so completely divided the world into two camps: for abortion, against abortion, you find it hard to respond to anyone who says maybe we've gone too far in this business, with anything other than boiler plate rhetoric. While I believe abortion is an appropriate medical procedure. I also believe this culture clash has led us down the wrong road. And has had disastrous consequences for us.

You summed up the Democrat position, he summed up the Republican.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

This sounds familiar somehow...

Virginia police department policy labeled all rape victims liars

After repeat harassment and intimidation from police in Norfolk, Va., a 22-year-old sexual assault survivor submitted a written statement detailing how, after reporting her assault, investigators doubted her story multiple times and told her, “If we find out that you’re lying, this will be a felony charge.”

According to a report from the Virginia Pilot, in addition to verbal harassment that became so extreme that the unnamed victim was compelled to walk out of her interview with investigators, police officials failed to release a composite sketch of the woman’s assailant, Roy Ruiz Loredo, a serial rapist who, after leaving Norfolk, went on to allegedly assault three other women in Virginia Beach.

The woman’s mistreatment during the investigation prompted the department to update its sexual assault policy which, prior to the changes, classified all rape cases as “unfounded” as a default and had no written provision in place to ensure victims were taken to the hospital and examined following an assault.

Imagine that.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

You summed up the Democrat position, he summed up the Republican.

You left out the part where I disagreed with both sides. This exchange started when I agreed with Priceless and the deli guy who's shutting down, he says, because of pro-life protestors outside his place of business. And several of you have been playing whack-a-mole with me ever since. Evidently it's not sufficient for me to be more or less in agreement. I need to agree with y'all more. I'll try to do better in future.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

This sounds familiar somehow...

Virginia police department policy labeled all rape victims liars





Imagine that.

You didn't even try to accurately summarize the relevant paragraph, did you? Another exercise in prescience. You're the GD Queen of Hearts, why don't you do something? Something other than sharing these unattributed, one sided, lefty articles. Somebody ought to introduce sweeping legislation in Virginia. Call it the Tawana Brawley Act.

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: Nice Planet 5: Insert Catchy Title Here

You left out the part where I disagreed with both sides. This exchange started when I agreed with Priceless and the deli guy who's shutting down, he says, because of pro-life protestors outside his place of business. And several of you have been playing whack-a-mole with me ever since. Evidently it's not sufficient for me to be more or less in agreement. I need to agree with y'all more. I'll try to do better in future.

I think we all agreed that most people think somewhere in the middle of the two extreme positions that you and I laid out.....

Well, I guess it's a matter of semantics. "Nobody is "for" abortion." What, exactly, does that mean?

To me that would mean that there is nobody out there thinking "gee I sure hope there are a bunch of unwanted pregnancies this week so there will be lots of women having aboritions".

I'd be curious as to how many Americans truly oppose abortion in the comparatively rare instances of rape, incest and life of the mother. Or would if a young woman they loved faced that choice.

I would like to know as well... but it is interesting that both of the last two VP candidates that the Republican's offered us had this position...

It is Democrats who turned an obscure 30 year old coed into a "national" figure because she wanted a Catholic university to provide her with birth control.

Hmm... wasn't it really a Republican talk show host who turned her into a national figure by saying only a "slut" would want birth control (or something to that effect)?