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Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

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Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

If the Brits don't want to try why aren't they allowing someone else to try?
We (science) might learn something of value in even if the expect outcome happens.

FAIL == First Attempt In Learning
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
I could maybe get on board with that.
I’ve been studying details about how much money is spent at the end of someone’s life and it’s quite astonishing.
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I'd be on board. Frankly, if I'm in that situation, where I'm terminal, let me die in peace and without pain. Don't make me live in suffering.
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

If the child is now an Italian citizen, why aren't the Brits happy to let him leave and be the burden on the Italian health system?
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
I could maybe get on board with that.
I’ve been studying details about how much money is spent at the end of someone’s life and it’s quite astonishing.
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My dad has quoted the figure to me a few times. Astonishing is a great word for it. It’s a very large percent of our entire life’s cumulative expenses.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
My dad has quoted the figure to me a few times. Astonishing is a great word for it. It’s a very large percent of our entire life’s cumulative expenses.
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Isn't something like 98% of health expenses spent in the first 3 and last 3 months of our collective lives?
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

mookie1995 said:
Isn't something like 98% of health expenses spent in the first 3 and last 3 months of our collective lives?
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Well, you would kinda assume that the biggest spike in health care costs is going to be for the thing that kills you. :p I'd like to see the crosstabs, in other words.
 
Kepler said:
Well, you would kinda assume that the biggest spike in health care costs is going to be for the thing that kills you. :p I'd like to see the crosstabs, in other words.
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A lot of the time a ton of money is spent to barely prolog your life. That’s what I think is difficult. That’s why a hip transplant for a 84 year old isn’t going to be prioritized by the nhs.
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

The Sicatoka said:
If the child is now an Italian citizen, why aren't the Brits happy to let him leave and be the burden on the Italian health system?
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Because until the UK finalizes its exit form the EU, it's still paying for Italy's profligate spending.
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

joecct said:
He's still living despite the doctors assertions that he would die within hours. The doctors want to withhold nutrition to starve Alfie to death.
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Show me where a doctor who is primarily involved in his care said on record that he will certainly die within hours. My team unfortunately is often in the position of withdrawing care on a patient. I have never met someone who would assert when a patient will die and I remain highly skeptical someone said that. They may have said "It might be hours" but not "He will die within hours."

joecct said:
Why can't the parents seek alternative care? Is the NHS that powerful that it can stifle a parents' last chances to keep their child alive?
Why not call them murderers? Got another name for someone who goes against the parents' wishes to keep their son alive?
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Parents do not own their children. They do not have an absolute right to prolong suffering. Do you know what it is like to be on a ventilator? Or have the inevitable complications? I have not examined the patient nor have access to their records so I cannot comment on this particular case. But neither can you. I am an expert in this area any there is no way that one can comment intelligently in any way unless they know all the details. Unless I have reviewed his chart, directly viewed his imaging and performed my own exam, I would not comment on specifics and any doctor that would is, in my opinion, irresponsible.

People do not have the absolute right to request any treatment they want. This has a long established ethical framework.
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

The Sicatoka said:
If the Brits don't want to try why aren't they allowing someone else to try?
We (science) might learn something of value in even if the expect outcome happens.

FAIL == First Attempt In Learning
Click to expand...

Yes experimenting on children where the risks are likely much greater than benefits. Add a dash of selling likely false hope to devastated parents and you have a nice ethical framework :rolleyes:
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

http://www.alderhey.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/FAQs-FINAL-220318-1.pdf

"12. Why won’t you let him to go to Rome for treatment?

Three clinicians from Rome visited Alfie in September 2017, discussed his case with the team here and reviewed his notes. Following their detailed assessment, they agreed with the conclusions of the Alder Hey team that Alfie’s condition was effectively untreatable..

Significantly, they noted that given Alfie’s epilepsy, there was a risk of him suffering further brain injury if he was transfered abroad. They have offered to take him to their hospital but agree there is nothing they can do to help or improve his condition. Further invasive procedures have been suggested but these will not help him recover. Our clinicians are professionally obliged to always consider what is in a patient’s best interest. We do not believe that it is in Alfie’s best interests to go to Rome and be subjected to invasive and procedures when there is no hope of recovery or a cure."
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

dxmnkd316 said:
**** your facts
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Knowledge is power! ;)

If I seem a bit *****ly about this topic, it is because I work in this in both the adult and pediatric worlds and I can tell you the awesome pediatric teams that take care of these kids do not suggest withdrawal of care unless it becomes a clear case of prolonging suffering. I do not have a reason to suspect it is any different in the UK.
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

That must be one of the toughest conversations to have with a parent. It’s an impossible situation I imagine is the absolute last thing you would consider.

I don’t envy that position.
 
WisconsinWildcard said:
Knowledge is power! ;)

If I seem a bit *****ly about this topic, it is because I work in this in both the adult and pediatric worlds and I can tell you the awesome pediatric teams that take care of these kids do not suggest withdrawal of care unless it becomes a clear case of prolonging suffering. I do not have a reason to suspect it is any different in the UK.
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Thank you for saying what I tried to say but better. The parents mean well, e all feel for them. He’s brain dead. Prolonging suffering is miserable and it’s why his uk docs did what they did
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

The righties want to use this as Exhibit A against a nationalized healthcare system. That's why you're seeing all this baloney from the usual sites.

They know it's inevitable, and they're just trying to delay it.
 
Re: Nice Planet 14: You People Make Me Sick

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