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NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
- Thread starter MissThundercat
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hockeyplayer1015
Capt
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
So, word was that the Cup and handlers left their hotel at puck drop to start the game on the outskirts of the city. Due to traffic/etc, they were late-ish.
So, word was that the Cup and handlers left their hotel at puck drop to start the game on the outskirts of the city. Due to traffic/etc, they were late-ish.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
Speak for yourself. I play tomorrow and Thursday... every week.
I don't get an offseason like the prima donnas we watched tonight.
I'm good with a break - especially when my team ends on top.
Time to get on with summer.
No more hockey.
Speak for yourself. I play tomorrow and Thursday... every week.
I don't get an offseason like the prima donnas we watched tonight.
I'm good with a break - especially when my team ends on top.
Time to get on with summer.
trixR4kids
New member
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
I wasn't wrong about Toews, the stats disagree with you but like most things involving science and stats you'll probably just ignore it and pretend you're right ("black people get arrested for the same crimes as whites at a higher rate because they're more obvious about the crimes they commit, my friend told me so!") because you're a halfwit.
You argued that the Brewers shouldn't be in rebuild mode because despite the fact that they were barely above .500 last year and the rest of the division got stronger in the off season. So yeah, funny how you conveniently forgot about that.
I wasn't wrong about Toews, the stats disagree with you but like most things involving science and stats you'll probably just ignore it and pretend you're right ("black people get arrested for the same crimes as whites at a higher rate because they're more obvious about the crimes they commit, my friend told me so!") because you're a halfwit.
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
One Goal Achieved x 3.
Very Cool.
Best team in the salary cap era so far.
Before taking it any further, we need to see the years immediately ahead -- and digest it all.
Could be that everything from the 2015 Cup Run, including the sheer emotion of it, is just too fresh for me to be objective. But right here and now, my feeling is that this was the toughest of the three Cups to win. Further, Anaheim 2015 and Tampa 2015 were the two toughest opponents over the six year period. Absolutely no disrespect to any of the other playoff opponents, of course.
One Goal Achieved x 3.
Very Cool.
Best team of the 2010's so far.
Best team in the salary cap era so far.
Before taking it any further, we need to see the years immediately ahead -- and digest it all.
Yes. Yes it would.Early summer for me has become a tradition of games that matter every other night with friends and family coming over to hang and watch and celebrate.
Hopefully we get another 6 years just like it!
Wouldn't that be great?
Couldn't agree more. Have a ton of respect for Tampa. The way they play, their players, their coach, the works.
Could be that everything from the 2015 Cup Run, including the sheer emotion of it, is just too fresh for me to be objective. But right here and now, my feeling is that this was the toughest of the three Cups to win. Further, Anaheim 2015 and Tampa 2015 were the two toughest opponents over the six year period. Absolutely no disrespect to any of the other playoff opponents, of course.
MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
So, if you replace two of the best players in the NHL with two of the other best players in the NHL, you'll get the same results? No s***.
So, if you replace two of the best players in the NHL with two of the other best players in the NHL, you'll get the same results? No s***.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
Yeah, I don't get his argument. The two players he's replacing are still two of the best players in the World. So what the **** is the point?
Yeah, I don't get his argument. The two players he's replacing are still two of the best players in the World. So what the **** is the point?
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
Five years and six days ago, I asked a question.
Two Stanley Cups and another Olympic Gold later, I re-ask the question:
From June 10, 2010 @ 9:04 AM
I ask that question not about shots, or skating, or other cybermetrics; I ask that question from the point of view of who else has that will to win and backs it up with skills ... and by winning.
Five years and six days ago, I asked a question.
Two Stanley Cups and another Olympic Gold later, I re-ask the question:
From June 10, 2010 @ 9:04 AM
I ask that question not about shots, or skating, or other cybermetrics; I ask that question from the point of view of who else has that will to win and backs it up with skills ... and by winning.
trixR4kids
New member
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
Well apparently this is a revelation to some people who think Toews is just so clutch and better than Crosby/Getzlaf/Bergeron because he's played on a better team.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
The reason it's an asinine position to take - from a guy who routinely takes asinine positions - is that it assumes that these are all interchangeable parts. That you can plug a player in a slot and if they have similar or better attributes, you will automatically get similar or better results.
That is a fallacy as it doesn't take into account intangibles such as team chemistry, leadership qualities, the will to win, the ability to function under duress, the size of one's nuts, etc...
It's the video game GM mode mentality. "Well I did it in NHL 12 and I won a Cup with the Bruins coz I traded blah blah blah..."
Same mentality exists within fan bases. "A much cheaper player from the AHL could fill Shaw's role."
Maybe... most likely not. Shaw is where he is, not because of his skill set, but because of his considerable intangibles. There are thousands of guys in the world who are not in the NHL who have better attributes than Andrew Shaw. But only Andrew Shaw does exactly what Andrew Shaw does and fits the chemistry of this Chicago Blackhawks team. While maybe not unique in the world, he fits this group at this time.
To say that 10 different centers of similar or greater talent could be substituted for Toews and that the Hawks would get the same results discounts the 8 (or so) years that he has put in and the leadership that he has shown and the chemistry that he has helped to foster within this group.
As I said, an asinine position to take from a guy who likes to stir the pot... or is just an idiot.
The reason it's an asinine position to take - from a guy who routinely takes asinine positions - is that it assumes that these are all interchangeable parts. That you can plug a player in a slot and if they have similar or better attributes, you will automatically get similar or better results.
That is a fallacy as it doesn't take into account intangibles such as team chemistry, leadership qualities, the will to win, the ability to function under duress, the size of one's nuts, etc...
It's the video game GM mode mentality. "Well I did it in NHL 12 and I won a Cup with the Bruins coz I traded blah blah blah..."
Same mentality exists within fan bases. "A much cheaper player from the AHL could fill Shaw's role."
Maybe... most likely not. Shaw is where he is, not because of his skill set, but because of his considerable intangibles. There are thousands of guys in the world who are not in the NHL who have better attributes than Andrew Shaw. But only Andrew Shaw does exactly what Andrew Shaw does and fits the chemistry of this Chicago Blackhawks team. While maybe not unique in the world, he fits this group at this time.
To say that 10 different centers of similar or greater talent could be substituted for Toews and that the Hawks would get the same results discounts the 8 (or so) years that he has put in and the leadership that he has shown and the chemistry that he has helped to foster within this group.
As I said, an asinine position to take from a guy who likes to stir the pot... or is just an idiot.
WeAreNDHockey
\../ \../
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
Serious question but are you an accountant or someone who works with numbers and such as absolutes? How else is it you arrive at the conclusion that players are just different parts to be plugged into the equation? Sort of like 3 + 7 + 11 = 21 and 7X3 = 21. There is so much more to Toews game (or Crosby or Stamkos or any other great player) that just the raw numbers they put up.
Serious question but are you an accountant or someone who works with numbers and such as absolutes? How else is it you arrive at the conclusion that players are just different parts to be plugged into the equation? Sort of like 3 + 7 + 11 = 21 and 7X3 = 21. There is so much more to Toews game (or Crosby or Stamkos or any other great player) that just the raw numbers they put up.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
Having see team sports at the youth level to the pro level for many many years I call BS. Team sports aren't just about having the best players it's also about having the right players. You can't put that into your formula though cause it's not math.
Having see team sports at the youth level to the pro level for many many years I call BS. Team sports aren't just about having the best players it's also about having the right players. You can't put that into your formula though cause it's not math.
1980 Olympic team comes to mind.
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
I've seen some teams with great individual players on them that, when put under pressure, lose their composure, while other teams have that person with that hard-to-measure skill of keeping everyone else on an even keel. Some teams are just so much better than the sum total of their individual players.
I was impressed by the way the 'Hawks could absorb the Lightning pressure without getting rattled, and how they could remain focused without getting frustrated even when so many chances just didn't quite go in.
I've seen some teams with great individual players on them that, when put under pressure, lose their composure, while other teams have that person with that hard-to-measure skill of keeping everyone else on an even keel. Some teams are just so much better than the sum total of their individual players.
I was impressed by the way the 'Hawks could absorb the Lightning pressure without getting rattled, and how they could remain focused without getting frustrated even when so many chances just didn't quite go in.
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
What the 'Hawks have done over the past seven or eight years is remarkable, truly impressive.
Only a linguistic purist would quibble over the use of the word "dynasty." It seems a bit premature to use it yet, 3 championships over 6 years means that they are very close, but if the word is going to remain indicative of something historically rare and special, then I'd love to see 4 out of 7. Of course, change one fluke bounce last year in Game 7 OT loss to Kings, and 4 out of 6 would remove all doubt as well.
From the collective wisdom of crowds commonly known as Wikipedia:
Original sources for items cited below:
NHL website, Hockey Hall of Fame website.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=25435
http://www.hhof.com/htmltimecapsule/dyntm00.shtml
What the 'Hawks have done over the past seven or eight years is remarkable, truly impressive.
Only a linguistic purist would quibble over the use of the word "dynasty." It seems a bit premature to use it yet, 3 championships over 6 years means that they are very close, but if the word is going to remain indicative of something historically rare and special, then I'd love to see 4 out of 7. Of course, change one fluke bounce last year in Game 7 OT loss to Kings, and 4 out of 6 would remove all doubt as well.
From the collective wisdom of crowds commonly known as Wikipedia:
Original sources for items cited below:
NHL website, Hockey Hall of Fame website.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=25435
http://www.hhof.com/htmltimecapsule/dyntm00.shtml
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G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
It's quite possible that had the Hawks won last year, they may not have this year.
Maybe they don't make the same roster moves. Maybe the resolve isn't quite there.
That said, last year is definitely one that got away.
As far as a "dynasty," I couldn't care less. All I know is I've got 3 titles and all of these great memories and a team that very likely isn't done yet.
And I get to go swag shopping next week when I'm down there for a U2 concert.
It's quite possible that had the Hawks won last year, they may not have this year.
Maybe they don't make the same roster moves. Maybe the resolve isn't quite there.
That said, last year is definitely one that got away.
As far as a "dynasty," I couldn't care less. All I know is I've got 3 titles and all of these great memories and a team that very likely isn't done yet.
And I get to go swag shopping next week when I'm down there for a U2 concert.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
The newspaper in Toews' home town thinks he a pretty good player.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/nhl/Toews-just-getting-started-307509491.html
The newspaper in Toews' home town thinks he a pretty good player.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/nhl/Toews-just-getting-started-307509491.html
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
Are you trying to tell me that Toews' home town ISN'T Grand Forks? I'd have never guessed...
Are you trying to tell me that Toews' home town ISN'T Grand Forks? I'd have never guessed...
trixR4kids
New member
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason
I love when people cite intangibles because it's basically another way of saying, "I don't have any actual proof so obviously I need to find something that can't be measured to fit my narrative".
I get that team chemistry matters and I've played the sport my whole life for a variety of different teams that all have their different attitudes and what not but I don't think it matters as much as some people think. The Seahawks don't exactly sound like the most harmonious locker room ever but won a SB and were one bad playcall away from their 2nd in 3 years just to name an example. There are plenty more.
The idea that Crosby/Bergeron/Getzlaf/Tavares don't work equally hard, lack leadership qualities or lack the will to win is asinine and shows that you've never listened to an interview by any of them, know nothing about their off season training, or just simply just believe everything the media and Mike Milbury tells you. Toews is good but he sure as heck isn't leaps and bounds better than any of those guys if he's even better at all. If you want to cite something measurable to justify your argument then fine.
Keep in mind this all started because of the whole "clutch player" argument despite the fact that Vermette probably had the most clutch moments in these playoffs for the Hawks. We could look back to their 2nd cup run and remember how clutch Toews was against the Red Wings as well. In the end my only point is that the Hawks are a dynasty mostly because of what Ken Holland has done to put together that squad in terms of depth, the best top 6 in the NHL, the best 4 Dmen when you consider how much they played and how well they shut down the opposition etc.
I love when people cite intangibles because it's basically another way of saying, "I don't have any actual proof so obviously I need to find something that can't be measured to fit my narrative".
I get that team chemistry matters and I've played the sport my whole life for a variety of different teams that all have their different attitudes and what not but I don't think it matters as much as some people think. The Seahawks don't exactly sound like the most harmonious locker room ever but won a SB and were one bad playcall away from their 2nd in 3 years just to name an example. There are plenty more.
The idea that Crosby/Bergeron/Getzlaf/Tavares don't work equally hard, lack leadership qualities or lack the will to win is asinine and shows that you've never listened to an interview by any of them, know nothing about their off season training, or just simply just believe everything the media and Mike Milbury tells you. Toews is good but he sure as heck isn't leaps and bounds better than any of those guys if he's even better at all. If you want to cite something measurable to justify your argument then fine.
Keep in mind this all started because of the whole "clutch player" argument despite the fact that Vermette probably had the most clutch moments in these playoffs for the Hawks. We could look back to their 2nd cup run and remember how clutch Toews was against the Red Wings as well. In the end my only point is that the Hawks are a dynasty mostly because of what Ken Holland has done to put together that squad in terms of depth, the best top 6 in the NHL, the best 4 Dmen when you consider how much they played and how well they shut down the opposition etc.
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