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NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

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Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

trixR4kids said:
Coming from you that's a compliment so thanks.

If you really think Toews is far and away better than the best NHL centers you're delusional. Now that said there's only a handful of players you could replace either with and still get the same results but I don't think Toews is better than Crosby for instance or Kane is better than AO.
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That you even brought Kessel into this makes me not want to bother with your typical dumbassery, but I'm bored and unproductive here today, so here goes:

http://insidepittsburghsports.com/story/toews-tops-crosby-in-another-poll-among-nhl-executives-coaches/67375/


Also, Tavares would have been 17 or 18 in 2010, so doubtful he'd have been ready to win the Conn Smythe. ;)


Kessel... seriously? The guy has won absolutely nothing ever.

Intangibles matter and Toews and Kane max out on intangibles.



Edit: And next time have the guts to sign your rep.
 
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Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

A whopping 5 scouts' opinions and a dozen NHL execs is the crux of your argument that Toews is better? :D :D :D :D

wow...

Kessel plays on a horrible team with quite possibly the worst first line center in the NHL so yeah I'm not gonna hold that against him that he hasn't won a cup. It takes more than two people to win a cup, though certain people aren't intellgent enough to understand that nuance.

Obviously Tavares is still pretty young so he wasn't a good example. Crosby, Getzlaf, current day Tavares, etc. could accomplish what Toews has with a similar surrounding cast is my point.

And intangibles lol. That's just another way of forming a narrative around the results let's be real.
 
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

trixR4kids said:
A whopping 5 scouts' opinions and a dozen NHL execs is the crux of your argument that Toews is better? :D :D :D :D

wow...

Kessel plays on a horrible team with quite possibly the worst first line center in the NHL so yeah I'm not gonna hold that against him that he hasn't won a cup. It takes more than two people to win a cup, though certain people aren't intellgent enough to understand that nuance.

Obviously Tavares is still pretty young so he wasn't a good example. Crosby, Getzlaf, current day Tavares, etc. could accomplish what Toews has with a similar surrounding cast is my point.

And intangibles lol. That's just another way of forming a narrative around the results let's be real.
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I think I'll take their assessment over yours.

Again with the Kessel...?


LOL


No one in the world would take Kessel over Kane or equate them.


Are you seriously this dumb, or just a troll?
 
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

Well one certainly is more productive in assists than the other and one has more cups as well but that has more to do with the surrounding cast than anything. Individually I don't think the disparity is that huge. And if you don't like him as an example use Ovechkin instead as he's certainly better than. Kane.

What about all the other execs that they didn't poll? Were any of these execs biased in any way? That poll means nothing.
 
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Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

No one will ever accuse me of being a Hawks fan so the praise I think Toews is due is not from some fawning fan boy, but I'd take him straight up for any player at any position in the NHL today. And it might not be close. Remove every point he's scored so far in the playoffs and just watch him play the game. No forward in the league is better at occupying two players (or more) at once than Toews. His inate ability to move pucks from one zone to the next, regardless of who is on the ice with him or who is checking him, is a thing of beauty. As hard as it is to compliment someone with Gretzky-like comparisons, he routinely sees the ice as well as #99 did. He supports the puck generally as well as any forward in the game. And this year he's still scoring a point per game in the postseason. He's also a top-notch leader. And not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, I even give him props for playing NCAA hockey (and for those who don't know the ND in my name is not for the Sioux, its for Notre Dame), because -- well -- this is a college hockey board.
 
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

IDK, there's a handful of NHL centers who currently do all those things as well if not better than Toews. People say he's better than those centers because he is surrounded by better wingers (Hossa, Kane, Saad), better Dmen (no other team in the NHL can roll 4 and have as much success as the Hawks), and their bottom two lines are better than probably any team in the NHL. Because of this they've won two cups and might add another tonight. The idea that you couldn't replace Toews with Crosby or Kane with AO and have won two cups by now is ludicrous. This isn't the NBA.
 
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

trixR4kids said:
The idea that you couldn't replace Toews with Crosby or Kane with AO and have won two cups by now is ludicrous. This isn't the NBA.
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You're not watching the game with a trained eye if you think there are a handful of centers who are doing all the things I noted better than Toews. You may have a trained eye, I don't know one way or another, but if you do you're not using it. As for your statement that you could have replaced Toews with Crosby (or anyone) and won two cups, well that is the ludicrous statement because it cannot be proven, by trained observation or with any other means. The only thing we do know is that Toews has won two Cups with the Hawks and is perhaps 60 minutes from a 3rd. As for being surrounded by all those good players Sidney Crosby has had one of the best players in the game as a teammate for years and they're not winning anything anymore. And Hossa could not help him or his Detroit mates win a Cup. Toews also makes players who share the ice with him better. Whatever pair of D-men they run out there benefit by having him back there with him. There are plenty of other great centers out there who do a lot on the ice. I just happen to think Toews is the best of the bunch.
 
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

WeAreNDHockey said:
No one will ever accuse me of being a Hawks fan so the praise I think Toews is due is not from some fawning fan boy, but I'd take him straight up for any player at any position in the NHL today. And it might not be close. Remove every point he's scored so far in the playoffs and just watch him play the game. No forward in the league is better at occupying two players (or more) at once than Toews. His inate ability to move pucks from one zone to the next, regardless of who is on the ice with him or who is checking him, is a thing of beauty. As hard as it is to compliment someone with Gretzky-like comparisons, he routinely sees the ice as well as #99 did. He supports the puck generally as well as any forward in the game. And this year he's still scoring a point per game in the postseason. He's also a top-notch leader. And not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, I even give him props for playing NCAA hockey (and for those who don't know the ND in my name is not for the Sioux, its for Notre Dame), because -- well -- this is a college hockey board.
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Don't dismiss the halo effect, and we all know where he picked that up.
 
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

There's plenty of people who have a trained eye and come to the opposite conclusion. Idk if they do all of those things better but they're better overall players and it is reflected in the stats. You're right that we can't test it but statistically (in terms of points) he's been better with worse teammates so it seems like a reasonable assumption and defensively I'd say they're about equal.

And Crosby and Malkin do occasionally play on the same line but are generally split. Even with those two their top 6 doesn't touch Chicago's and their bottom six hasn't even been close for most of those years.

And this isn't even getting into the idea that Kane's production couldn't be replaced by Ovie (Same playoff ppg).
 
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Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

The stupid is strong in this one.
 
Re: NHL 2015, Part 3: Stanley Cup and Offseason

Yup. Game. Series. Called it on April 16. Nashville doesn't cough up that three-goal lead and someone else is hoisting the Cup.
 
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