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NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

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Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

SJHovey said:
It says everything about our society. What does the "mob" say, that's always the question.

It drives whether we choose to prosecute someone. Whether we choose to have the Feds investigate civil rights abuses. Whether we fire someone. It's the whole victim impact statement mentality. Who can work up the most anger, the most sympathy, the most feelings for "their side", not "what is the correct decision."
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So true. Mob rule is a horrible road to go down.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

SteveP said:
What's the over/under on Condi Rice being the next NFL Commish?

I'd say the odds are pretty good.
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I have a much better canidate for NFL Commish:

Dave Brandon.

Please, take him. Get #BrandonforNFLCommish trending (I don't do the Twitters, so please tell your friends, let's make this happen).

Dave Brandon is great at promoting the brand (and the Brandon)
He has experience making large sums of money for a non-profit entity
He's been CEO of 2 corporations (please ignore that after he left Domino's the marketing strategy was to admit "we sucked, sorry")
He's capable of not discussing allegations against players
He's been athletic director at a Big Ten school.
He loves the "wow" factor
He can create a budget surplus while increasing administrative salaries
More than 100,000 people still go to see "his" football team at their home stadium despite mediocre performances and lackluster opponents.

Just imagine what he could do with the NFL.

Also, please, get him away from my University. He is crushing it's soul. Fortunately, the NFL doesn't have a soul to crush.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

Really? Michigan?

Since Carr, and even during carr's tenure, michigan has lost a lot of what made it michigan. I'm not sure the NFL wants someone that has overseen a Big Ten team fade away from being one of the perennial powerhouses and a tier 1 school.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Is the impulse to suspend regardless of the legal side of the issue in any way related to the off chance that he might get away with it? (See: How Ben "What Rhymes With Sloth?" Roethlisberger got suspended)

Say what you will about how guilty AP seems to be here (he does, and I'm not feeling an ounce of pity for him... wherever the line is between discipline and abuse, he's certainly long jumped over it), but the idea that the NFL should wait until the legal side has played out is at least logical.
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Normally I would agree with you on waiting for the legal process, but since he has flat out admitted it, I'm ok with not waiting in this case. As the Roethlisberger suspension indicates, convictions aren't mandatory for the NFL to act.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
Normally I would agree with you on waiting for the legal process, but since he has flat out admitted it, I'm ok with not waiting in this case. As the Roethlisberger suspension indicates, convictions aren't mandatory for the NFL to act.
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No, but I don't think anyone would really argue that they should be.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

Cardinals deactivate Jonathan Dwyer after reported domestic violence arrest.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

SJHovey said:
It says everything about our society. What does the "mob" say, that's always the question.

It drives whether we choose to prosecute someone. Whether we choose to have the Feds investigate civil rights abuses. Whether we fire someone. It's the whole victim impact statement mentality. Who can work up the most anger, the most sympathy, the most feelings for "their side", not "what is the correct decision."
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Which begs the question: what was the "correct decision" in this case, and who determines what it is? Evidently, the Vikings thought the correct decision was to let Peterson play while the legal process worked itself out. Should the "mob" just have remained quiet? Should the Vikings have remained steadfast in the face of public backlash?

I disagree with your grouping administration of justice by the government (e.g. whether or not to prosecute someone) with this situation. If you were referring to a decision whether or not to prosecute Peterson, I agree with you absolutely. But we're not. We're talking about whether an entertainment producer (the Vikings and the NFL) should continue to have an entertainer continue to take part in the entertainment event. In that instance it's entirely appropriate for the potential consumers of that entertainment to make their feelings known, and it's entirely appropriate for the Vikings and the NFL to pay attention to the outcry.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

Jeez, I should start working out. At the rate these guys beat women, I should be able to make a practice squad by week 10.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

CLS said:
Which begs the question: what was the "correct decision" in this case, and who determines what it is? Evidently, the Vikings thought the correct decision was to let Peterson play while the legal process worked itself out. Should the "mob" just have remained quiet? Should the Vikings have remained steadfast in the face of public backlash?

I disagree with your grouping administration of justice by the government (e.g. whether or not to prosecute someone) with this situation. If you were referring to a decision whether or not to prosecute Peterson, I agree with you absolutely. But we're not. We're talking about whether an entertainment producer (the Vikings and the NFL) should continue to have an entertainer continue to take part in the entertainment event. In that instance it's entirely appropriate for the potential consumers of that entertainment to make their feelings known, and it's entirely appropriate for the Vikings and the NFL to pay attention to the outcry.
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I don't dispute the right of customers of companies who make poor decisions to vote with their feet or their pocketbook. I just decry a system where it seems like this is how people, companies, and even the government make their decision. So if all the fantasy football people who drafted Peterson can get a bigger, louder critical mass of people together to protest the current Vikings action, the Vikings should change their mind again?
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

SJHovey said:
I don't dispute the right of customers of companies who make poor decisions to vote with their feet or their pocketbook. I just decry a system where it seems like this is how people, companies, and even the government make their decision. So if all the fantasy football people who drafted Peterson can get a bigger, louder critical mass of people together to protest the current Vikings action, the Vikings should change their mind again?
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That's on the companies, leagues and governments though - and I agree with you.

It'd be nice to see principled entities that take the lead without having to be shamed or coerced into doing the right thing.

That's not our world though.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

SJHovey said:
I don't dispute the right of customers of companies who make poor decisions to vote with their feet or their pocketbook. I just decry a system where it seems like this is how people, companies, and even the government make their decision. So if all the fantasy football people who drafted Peterson can get a bigger, louder critical mass of people together to protest the current Vikings action, the Vikings should change their mind again?
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So it appears your beef is with the Vikings, and I agree. Seems to me they were both unprincipled and tone deaf. They took an interim step (making him inactive for the Patriots' game), then apparently thought the furor had subsided. Especially coming on the heels of the Rice situation, that's really baffling.
 
Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

SJHovey said:
I don't dispute the right of customers of companies who make poor decisions to vote with their feet or their pocketbook. I just decry a system where it seems like this is how people, companies, and even the government make their decision. So if all the fantasy football people who drafted Peterson can get a bigger, louder critical mass of people together to protest the current Vikings action, the Vikings should change their mind again?
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Well, speak, then.

The NFL can choose to listen or not. But I'm sure many will think about listening to people who want an entertainer to entertain for their fantasy entertainment vs. physical volence people.

The NFL isn't covering the criminal side of this, and governments do have the obligation to investigate something based off of public demand- they are based on the public, afterall. But for criminal justice, there are very specific items that must be met before even going to court, and there, there is a Constitutional obligation of the government to make sure that basic rights of the accused are met.

Companies also have contracts that must be held to, which is why the players union is protesting Ray Rice's punishment. Do they have a point? Dunno- I've not read the contract. Being that this isn't a criminal thing, ones Rights are not totally applicable.

And in this case- who's Rights are being trampled on? None, that I can see. Fantasy football isn't a right- it's entertainment.

Which is different than how a private company has to do things to either fire or suspend an employee.
 
SJHovey said:
I don't dispute the right of customers of companies who make poor decisions to vote with their feet or their pocketbook. I just decry a system where it seems like this is how people, companies, and even the government make their decision. So if all the fantasy football people who drafted Peterson can get a bigger, louder critical mass of people together to protest the current Vikings action, the Vikings should change their mind again?
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I don't think the Vikings acquiesced because of mob rule on social media (although I abhor the practice), because their customers put away their wallets or because of the government, but rather because their business partners cried foul. (Which itself might be another form of mob rule albeit on a smaller scale). Whether or not those partners acted too swiftly is certainly up for debate, but surely you agree that in a free marketplace they have the right to exercise that potion.
 
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Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
Normally I would agree with you on waiting for the legal process, but since he has flat out admitted it, I'm ok with not waiting in this case. As the Roethlisberger suspension indicates, convictions aren't mandatory for the NFL to act.
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Fay Vincent had an article earlier this week (or late last week) in the Wall St. Journal in which he mentioned that, when he was thinking about disciplining a player for an off-the-field transgression, a judge called him and chewed him out for getting involved and gave him a lecture about "double jeopardy."

http://online.wsj.com/articles/fay-...ds-to-think-1410823139?KEYWORDS="fay+vincent"

Suspending a player for a violent crime seems obvious. But not all crimes are so easy to deal with. During my tenure as commissioner of Major League Baseball, a case arose involving a player in a drunk-driving accident. A prominent judge called to chew me out for even thinking about doing anything to the player beyond the punishment levied by a court. Adding to that punishment, he said, smacked of double jeopardy.
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HOWEVER, it is my understanding that the NFL players' contract probably includes a "conduct detrimental to the NFL" clause that would allow for supplemental discipline as it would technically be a different offense. Similar to how a person sometimes can be tried in state court, and also tried in federal court, for the "same" criminal act, since they are two different jurisdictions and thereby two different "crimes" and so IIRC "double jeopardy" wouldn't apply in that situation either.


Anyway, if the NFL is going to be disciplining players for domestic violence, what about owners? league employees? employees of teams who aren't players? should all of these people also be held to similar standards as well?



I would hope that society in general will do so.
 
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Re: NFL 2014-15: Iron Fist Getting Rusty?

FreshFish said:
Anyway, if the NFL is going to be disciplining players for domestic violence, what about owners? league employees? employees of teams who aren't players? should all of these people also be held to similar standards as well?
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No. There is a different standard for the employees that are public faces of the organization (players, coaches, etc) than for people that are not the public face. If a team wants to suspend someone behind the scenes for something, then so be it, but that would be completely up to them. And this is they way it should be. Being the public face of the organization means that you will be held to a higher standard, because you represent more than just yourself, as an individual.
 
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