NCAA Tournament Games

[robertearle]

Thanks for the history. I was wondering if the Wisconsin guys practice at LaBahn

"Practice facility" is something people will sometimes neglect to think about.

There's this sort-of ongoing pipedream discussion that varsity baseball might come back to Wisconsin (discontinued in the 1980s, IIRC); there are two or three facilities not at all near campus where those who want baseball to come back say they could play their games. And then you say "where would they practice? And where in January, as well as April?", and they don't really have an answer. There are a half-dozen other 'interlocking' problems with bringing baseball back - expense, weather, Title IX, etc - but 'practice facility' as well as 'game facility' are high on the list.

(In the 1970s, they practiced in the "infield" of that same indoor track building, often at the same time as track practice was going on. There was this set of netting that would be lowered from the ceiling that was supposed to keep the hardballs in and away from the runners. But it was a horrible compromise; the track people hated it, and I'm sure the baseball players must have hated it. One year, a friend of mine - a scholarship middle distance runner from Kenya - got drilled by a ball that escaped the netting; fractured eye orbital bone, and lost/chipped teeth.)

 

[ARM]

...What do others think? What’s the right number of seats or specific details for a women’s hockey specific OSU rink?

It depends on how they hope to use the arena. Host the WCHA Final Faceoff or Frozen Fours? Then you need to be able to handle four teams practicing and playing out of the locker rooms, not just the usual one visiting team. The Gopher's Ridder Arena is able to accomplish this in part because a tunnel connects it to the locker rooms next door at Mariucci Arena. Those events are also where the requirements for either a) a larger press box; or b) some pressbox annex that can be available to media when hosting special events. At Ridder, they use suites and club level seating for this, because the press box proper is tiny and doesn't fit much beyond the stats people and the SIDs.

What does OSU draw for regular-season games? In looking through this season, it seems like most games would fit into an 800-seat arena. If you don't plan to get into the FF market, then 2,000 seems like the high end of the range. You don't need 3,000 seats if nobody ever sits in half of them, but for a FF, then you want that and then some.

If hosting FFs, then I'd build 3,500-4,000. If not NCAA FFs but WCHA FFs, then 2,000-2,500. If neither, then 1,000-1,800. It's not the worst thing in the world to get the message out there that people wanted to go watch women's college hockey, but the demand was so high that no tickets were available.

 

[robertearle]

It depends on how they hope to use the arena. Host the WCHA Final Faceoff or Frozen Fours? Then you need to be able to handle four teams practicing and playing out of the locker rooms, not just the usual one visiting team. The Gopher's Ridder Arena is able to accomplish this in part because a tunnel connects it to the locker rooms next door at Mariucci Arena. Those events are also where the requirements for either a) a larger press box; or b) some pressbox annex that can be available to media when hosting special events. At Ridder, they use suites and club level seating for this, because the press box proper is tiny and doesn't fit much beyond the stats people and the SIDs.

What does OSU draw for regular-season games? In looking through this season, it seems like most games would fit into an 800-seat arena. If you don't plan to get into the FF market, then 2,000 seems like the high end of the range. You don't need 3,000 seats if nobody ever sits in half of them, but for a FF, then you want that and then some.

If hosting FFs, then I'd build 3,500-4,000. If not NCAA FFs but WCHA FFs, then 2,000-2,500. If neither, then 1,000-1,800. It's not the worst thing in the world to get the message out there that people wanted to go watch women's college hockey, but the demand was so high that no tickets were available.

For LaBahn, at least part of the result was "how (not) big a building can you manage to shoehorn into the space available?"

 

[pgb-ohio]

One of the real 'driving forces' in getting LaBahn built in Madison was that it would not only serve as a home for the women's team, but also be readily available as a practice facility for both men and women's teams. At that time, while the teams played their games at the Kohl Center, because the KC gets used for both basketball and hockey (and high school wrestling, and ...), it was quite frequently not available for hockey practice, because quite frequently the ice was covered over for other uses, and the switchover isn't simple or cheap.

The issues are exactly the same here.

Teams would have to find their way a mile down the street to a rink attached to the indoor track building next to the football stadium at Camp Randall, or all the way out to the Dane County Coliseum. You would actually see players, one or two at a time, going down Dayton Street in practice uniform on a moped, carrying bags of gear on their back.... in winter... in snow. It was a disaster waiting to happen.

No idea what the 'practice facility' situation in Columbus is, or how a new rink would affect it. But it was a major consideration in building LaBahn.

Well, the moped thing is a new one on me. But otherwise, it's again a closely analogous situation. Both teams use the Ice Rink as a practice facility. The Women's team always does; the Men's team frequently does. The Men practice on the Schottenstein Ice when they can.

It's been several years since I've paid any attention to the next point. But I believe it's still true that the Men always use their locker room in the Schottenstein Center, regardless of where practice is being held. If the Ice Rink, they still fully suit up; everything except for skates. They're then taken by bus to the Ice Rink. It's a short ride. You can see one building from the other. Maybe 1/3 of a Mile? You do cross the Olentangy River Bridge. (the smaller of the two major local rivers)

And yes, you're spot on: Practice arrangements would be a major consideration if the Ice Rink is replaced by a new facility. If enough resources were provided, it could be a win/win for all directly concerned. If the new ice sheet was physically connected to the Schott? Both teams could have their permanent locker rooms in the Schott. Both rinks could be easily accessed in skates. No more bus rides for the Men; no more "breezeway passage" for the Women. If a new building were slightly separated from the Schott? A tunnel could accomplish the same thing. (The Mariucci/Ridder set-up)

 

[robertearle]

The issues are exactly the same here.

Well, the moped thing is a new one on me. But otherwise, it's again a closely analogous situation. Both teams use the Ice Rink as a practice facility. The Women's team always does; the Men's team frequently does. The Men practice on the Schottenstein Ice when they can.

It's been several years since I've paid any attention to the next point. But I believe it's still true that the Men always use their locker room in the Schottenstein Center, regardless of where practice is being held. If the Ice Rink, they still fully suit up; everything except for skates. They're then taken by bus to the Ice Rink. It's a short ride. You can see one building from the other. Maybe 1/3 of a Mile? You do cross the Olentangy River Bridge. (the smaller of the two major local rivers)

And yes, you're spot on: Practice arrangements would be a major consideration if the Ice Rink is replaced by a new facility. If enough resources were provided, it could be a win/win for all directly concerned. If the new ice sheet was physically connected to the Schott? Both teams could have their permanent locker rooms in the Schott. Both rinks could be easily accessed in skates. No more bus rides for the Men; no more "breezeway passage" for the Women. If a new building were slightly separated from the Schott? A tunnel could accomplish the same thing. (The Mariucci/Ridder set-up)

LaBahn and the Kohl Center are also connected by 'tunnels'. Which also means they can share Zambonis. Turn left and you're on the ice in the KC; turn right, go 50 yards (maybe, under the basketball practice facility) and you're on the ice in LaBahn.

 

[pgb-ohio]

... Bowls are nice if you can fill them but realistically I don’t think any women’s program fills theirs. Unless Ohio State aspires to host Frozen Fours at their home rink I wouldn’t go to whatever that req is (3,000?). And it’s possible NCAA ups that at some point anyway.
Maybe 1800 with seats on both sides of the playing area is what id go with. Would not go smaller than 1500. Maybe 1500 works if you have designated space for the band and production crew. Not sure.

Bowls can be relatively small. Pegula (Penn State) holds 6,000. Munn (Michigan State) isn't exactly a bowl, but it has seating on all four sides IIRC. That holds 6,400. Polisseni at RIT is 4,500. Struggling to remember if Cheel (Clarkson) has seats on all four sides, but the capacity there is 3,000.

So a bowl is probably too large, but not necessarily by a lot. Maybe a Horseshoe? (Smiling emoticon here)

So I think considering OSU is proposing 50,000 sq feet for just women’s hockey, they can make a great facility out of it, but need to remember it’s a D1 game rink and nothing less; not a practice rink and nothing more. If it’s going to be attached to the Schott it will be a small building in the shadow of a big one so figure out how to make the small building stand out in its own way, even if that is in the details on the inside. I hope they don’t create something that looks like the standard NHL practice rink.

Certainly I agree with and support this.

I am little concerned about a new facility that has no "curb appeal" or even "curb presence," separate from the larger building. Did you know that there's a separate basketball practice facility in the Schott? The hoops teams needed a place to practice when the main arena is an ice rink. The mirror image of our issue.

The BB practice facility was added after the fact. Major project. Yet it blends in with the rest of building very nicely. I presume that was the design. If so, it works. When looking at the Schottenstein Center from the street, I never think about that BB practice facility. Which is perfectly fine for a space that's used solely for practice. But a bit of problem if you're hoping that the new brick and mortar will create interest among the paying customers.

Something you touched on from the other thread - the glove taps from the players to the little kids as a silver lining of going thru the lobby. Yes that is very cool. Possibly the coolest think about OSU Ice Rink and any small rink. the players did it on Saturday in the rink area, if not the lobby. If the players/program is up for it and the ability for glove taps to the kids can somehow be incorporated into a new build, yea that would be cool.

Unfortunately I'd believe you'd lose this tradition in the bigger building. The locker rooms are on the "Arena Level" in the Schott. Translation: Non-Public Area. I've got to believe the players would be routed directly onto the ice surface without entering the public space. I guess you'd rely on post-game autograph sessions and the like to take the place of the glove taps.

 

[pgb-ohio]

LaBahn and the Kohl Center are also connected by 'tunnels'. Which also means they can share Zambonis. Turn left and you're on the ice in the KC; turn right, go 50 yards (maybe, under the basketball practice facility) and you're on the ice in LaBahn.

That's cool. We should follow that good example. (If possible; I'm certainly no architect)

"A Building Of Their Own" definitely has its selling points, even if only separated by a few yards from the partner building(s).

 

[pgb-ohio]

It depends on how they hope to use the arena. Host the WCHA Final Faceoff or Frozen Fours? Then you need to be able to handle four teams practicing and playing out of the locker rooms, not just the usual one visiting team. The Gopher's Ridder Arena is able to accomplish this in part because a tunnel connects it to the locker rooms next door at Mariucci Arena. Those events are also where the requirements for either a) a larger press box; or b) some pressbox annex that can be available to media when hosting special events. At Ridder, they use suites and club level seating for this, because the press box proper is tiny and doesn't fit much beyond the stats people and the SIDs.

These are also excellent points. Hope the the powers-that-be are taking these things into account.

I suppose the conceptual answer would be: If the new ice sheet was truly in, or attached to, the Schott, then locker rooms in the Schott provide the additional space.

Also, I just have to believe that at least 2 new locker rooms would be created along with the new ice sheet. With an especially nice one dedicated to the Buckeye Women.

What does OSU draw for regular-season games? In looking through this season, it seems like most games would fit into an 800-seat arena. If you don't plan to get into the FF market, then 2,000 seems like the high end of the range. You don't need 3,000 seats if nobody ever sits in half of them, but for a FF, then you want that and then some.

There is an "if you build it, they will come" aspect. 25 years ago, when Men's Hockey played at the Ice Rink, 1,800 was the maximum capacity. After the move to the Schott, the crowds jumped immediately to 3,000 for the least desirable dates. Usually more; sometimes much more.

If hosting FFs, then I'd build 3,500-4,000. If not NCAA FFs but WCHA FFs, then 2,000-2,500.

I presume the thinking is that the larger events could be held in the original arena. With the Upper Bowl fully curtained off, I think that leaves around 8,000 seats. But of course the availability of the original arena on the March dates is very problematic.

If neither, then 1,000-1,800. It's not the worst thing in the world to get the message out there that people wanted to go watch women's college hockey, but the demand was so high that no tickets were available.

You're literally helping me understand why 1,000 is being proposed. Definitely appreciate your analysis.

Still, I'd hope for 1,500 - 1,800. For Gophers/Badgers/Regionals, I believe those additional seats would be invaluable.

But yes, your last point is well taken. It felt awfully good to be able to report that the NCAA Quarterfinal and one of the Regular Season Games were Sell-Outs.

 

[vicb]

Bowls can be relatively small. Pegula (Penn State) holds 6,000. Munn (Michigan State) isn't exactly a bowl, but it has seating on all four sides IIRC. That holds 6,400. Polisseni at RIT is 4,500. Struggling to remember if Cheel (Clarkson) has seats on all four sides, but the capacity there is 3,000.

So a bowl is probably too large, but not necessarily by a lot. Maybe a Horseshoe? (Smiling emoticon here)


Certainly I agree with and support this.

I am little concerned about a new facility that has no "curb appeal" or even "curb presence," separate from the larger building. Did you know that there's a separate basketball practice facility in the Schott? The hoops teams needed a place to practice when the main arena is an ice rink. The mirror image of our issue.

The BB practice facility was added after the fact. Major project. Yet it blends in with the rest of building very nicely. I presume that was the design. If so, it works. When looking at the Schottenstein Center from the street, I never think about that BB practice facility. Which is perfectly fine for a space that's used solely for practice. But a bit of problem if you're hoping that the new brick and mortar will create interest among the paying customers.


Unfortunately I'd believe you'd lose this tradition in the bigger building. The locker rooms are on the "Arena Level" in the Schott. Translation: Non-Public Area. I've got to believe the players would be routed directly onto the ice surface without entering the public space. I guess you'd rely on post-game autograph sessions and the like to take the place of the glove taps.

Clarkson Cheel arena has seats on all 4 sides.

Planned Renovations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKMikpLiOH8

Completed Renovations in 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UtDhBSU4QU

 

[pgb-ohio]

Clarkson Cheel arena has seats on all 4 sides.

Planned Renovations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKMikpLiOH8

Completed Renovations in 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UtDhBSU4QU

Cool Videos! I was hoping you'd chip in.

This is the kind of seating I'd envision for a new ice sheet within the Schott. A Horseshoe shape -- meaning seating on 3 sides -- could bring the seating capacity down closer to the target number.

On a loosely related note, it's great to see Casey Jones thriving at Clarkson. OK, he had a little more hair when he was at Ohio State. Otherwise, same Casey!

Thanks for posting the videos.

 

[TchrBill]

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