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NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

J.D. said:
How have I not answered the question? My opinion is easy to understand. I don't think you should have 24 year olds against 18 year olds in college hockey. Emphasis on college. You can disagree but don't be obtuse about it. If you really want it spelled out for you, a 21 year old freshman coming off multiple years in juniors is a lot more physically mature than an 18 year old freshman. As I said you can disagree but this isn't some new complaint that hasn't been brought up before.
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I'm really not being obtuse. It was not clear to me what your concern was, and evidently I wasn't the only one. It is in fact clear now that you've answered my question.

I will admit that it seems to me like much ado about nothing. There is inherently going to be a minimum 5 year age gap between the oldest and youngest players on the ice, so I'm having trouble seeing why 7 years is so much worse. Not to mention, if those 24-yr-olds are so much bigger and stronger than the 22-yr-olds who entered as 18-yr-old freshmen, presumably they are getting signed professionally. If they're not, I feel like their age must not have been too much of an advantage.

But like I said, I'm not trying to pester you, so I'm more than happy to let it drop. Thank you for finally answering my question, though.:)
 
duper said:
I'm really not being obtuse. It was not clear to me what your concern was, and evidently I wasn't the only one. It is in fact clear now that you've answered my question.

I will admit that it seems to me like much ado about nothing. There is inherently going to be a minimum 5 year age gap between the oldest and youngest players on the ice, so I'm having trouble seeing why 7 years is so much worse. Not to mention, if those 24-yr-olds are so much bigger and stronger than the 22-yr-olds who entered as 18-yr-old freshmen, presumably they are getting signed professionally. If they're not, I feel like their age must not have been too much of an advantage.

But like I said, I'm not trying to pester you, so I'm more than happy to let it drop. Thank you for finally answering my question, though.:)
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That's what I'm saying-- that's not a real reason.

My suspicion is that whoever his team is has done some losing to teams with older players recently.
 
duper said:
I'm really not being obtuse. It was not clear to me what your concern was, and evidently I wasn't the only one. It is in fact clear now that you've answered my question.

I will admit that it seems to me like much ado about nothing.
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Which I certainly understand. This isn't some new argument. I thought everyone already understood the argument against older players. And as I have already explained my team has often had great success as the youngest team in the country or one of the youngest. And I still didn't like it. It's not a new argument.
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

J.D. said:
How have I not answered the question? My opinion is easy to understand. I don't think you should have 24 year olds against 18 year olds in college hockey. Emphasis on college. You can disagree but don't be obtuse about it. If you really want it spelled out for you, a 21 year old freshman coming off multiple years in juniors is a lot more physically mature than an 18 year old freshman. As I said you can disagree but this isn't some new complaint that hasn't been brought up before.
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I think that you have made the point? This is exactly why coaches recruit 21 year old freshman. If the coaches in other sports like football and basketball had the luxury of leaving players in a "junior" league to develop for a couple of years, they would do it to. Because they want to win. Many kids develop later than others and the time in junior gives them more development time. If you truly want college hockey to be at a higher level than junior hockey, why wouldn't you want to recruit from the cream of the Juniors. A few (and I mean a very small few) who are truly committed in high school, are still asked to play a few years of Junior to develop further. Dmen and goalies almost always require more development time, even all the way to pro. The luxury that hockey coaches have is likely the envy of many football and basketball coaches. The quality of the hockey that we see in Div 1 and Div III is directly a result of the availability of Junior hockey. I for one prefer to watch NCAA hockey that has the benefit of players developed for 1-3 years in Junior. This has allowed NCAA players to see increased success in the pros.
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

J.D. said:
Which I certainly understand. This isn't some new argument. I thought everyone already understood the argument against older players. And as I have already explained my team has often had great success as the youngest team in the country or one of the youngest. And I still didn't like it. It's not a new argument.
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I'm a DU fan, so I'm definitely aware that this isn't a new argument. I've just never heard anyone say anything other than that it's wrong. Never heard a reason before, presumably because to the people who feel this way the reason seems so obvious that it doesn't bear mentioning? I was actually happy to see someone bring it up fresh, because I have always wondered what the problem is.
 
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Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

J.D. said:
Which I certainly understand. This isn't some new argument. I thought everyone already understood the argument against older players. And as I have already explained my team has often had great success as the youngest team in the country or one of the youngest. And I still didn't like it. It's not a new argument.
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duper said:
I'm a DU fan, so I'm definitely aware that this isn't a new argument.
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It's a very old argument, going back to the fifties when the old WIHL broke up over the issue (see History of the WCHA at the College Hockey Historical Archives). Even after the western teams patched things over and formed the WCHA it remained enough of an issue that Harvard declined too play in the 1963 NCAA tournament (although Harvard focused on the players being Canadian, they also were 20-21 year-olds who had played in Junior A).

Sean
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

Sean Pickett said:
It's a very old argument, going back to the fifties when the old WIHL broke up over the issue (see History of the WCHA at the College Hockey Historical Archives). Even after the western teams patched things over and formed the WCHA it remained enough of an issue that Harvard declined too play in the 1963 NCAA tournament (although Harvard focused on the players being Canadian, they also were 20-21 year-olds who had played in Junior A).

Sean
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There used to be a pretty restrictive limit on how many Canadian players you could have on your roster. I think it was relaxed about 1975 roughly.
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

The current rule change: great. What benefit do we have recruiting players at 15? Will make them more entitled and less hungry from a younger age IMO.
Age cap? Why don’t we just change the draft rules to par with basketball and football while we’re at it. Oh..right.., because college competes with junior/major junior leagues and the level of talent choosing NCAA hockey would be ANNIHILATED. Fair accusing JD of being a Gopher fan. The junior age rules are nothing new AFAIK, but this stems from Lucia throwing a hissy fit after being destroyed by an older Union team in the championship. But fast forward 5 years, let’s say we did totally revamp eligibility rules: no junior over agers, players ineligible after declaring for the draft just like bball to appease some here. Seems fairly safe to say a lot of Gophers would be SOL for a pro career after finishing 20th in the nation.
If the NCAA is to be a viable league to develop players for the NHL, how does capping the age limit help? Last I checked, the NHL has guys ranging from 18-40s and recruits for size and physicality So this argument that “it’s not fair for 18 year olds to go up against 24-25 year olds” is pure rubbish.
Sure a team should not be able to force a commit to play three years in juniors before taking them. If after two years they are not on the college team they should be fair game for any NCAA team to take. But not gonna lie, I’m not too familiar with the rules regarding that. Feel free to fill me in
 
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Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

CanalPark said:
My bad. He just sounded like one.
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And you sound like a d##k. UMD fan perhaps?

UMD21 said:
Fair accusing JD of being a Gopher fan. The junior age rules are nothing new AFAIK, but this stems from Lucia throwing a hissy fit after being destroyed by an older Union team in the championship
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Oh look another one. And sure he did.
 
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Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

UMD21 said:
Last I checked, the NHL has guys ranging from 18-40s and recruits for size and physicality
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Very good, I'm proud of you. You were able to identify the age range of players in the professional league known as the NHL. What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

A better comparison to college hockey would be its direct competition. That is the CHL. And the CHL has an age limit so it's really not far fetched at all to opine that college hockey should as well.
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

J.D. said:
A better comparison to college hockey would be its direct competition. That is the CHL. And the CHL has an age limit so it's really not far fetched at all to opine that college hockey should as well.
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And where do those that don't make it to the pro leagues go? Canadian colleges. Where they still play for the various universities. If anything, that's reason to keep the age limit exactly where it is.
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

Do any Canadian colleges get kids that are 18 and 19 year old freshmen or are they only getting older players who have exhausted their junior eligibility? I checked a couple rosters but don't see any birthdates.
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

Split-N said:
But college baseball doesn't have to contend with a functional equivalent of Canadian Major Junior. That being said, the NHL could do something similar to what MLB does if it wanted to instead of taking the easy way out by robbing the cradle.



Amen.
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College baseball competes directly with the many lower levels of minor league baseball. There is nothing to stop a HS graduate from signing with a pro team, be it AAA, AA, A, Short season A, etc rather than wasting time in classrooms they have no affinity for. It seems as though MLB teams actually prefers their draftees do exactly that more often than not. That way they can play more games and not have to spend 3-4 years playing with metal bats.
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

J.D. said:
A better comparison to college hockey would be its direct competition. That is the CHL. And the CHL has an age limit so it's really not far fetched at all to opine that college hockey should as well.
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The CHL also allows kids to start play as early as 15. So you might have 15 year-olds playing with 20/21 year olds. That's the same argument as your 18-year olds playing with 24-year olds. So, what's the real problem?
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

ScottK said:
So, what's the real problem?
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I think I have answered that already. But a 15 year old playing against a 21 year old in junior hockey seems absurd to me as well. In any event, I think programs who typically didn't recruit older players are going to start changing their ways and doing that. So if premier programs start winning battles for older players...then what will the woe is me smaller program do?
 
Re: NCAA Rule Changes to Slow Recruiting

ScottK said:
So, what's the real problem?
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Here's an analogy. Age difference MATTERS when you're young. Not so much after that. If a 31 year old man marries a 16 yo girl that is considered "unusual" (well, to the extent that anything is unusual today). If that man is 50 and the girl is 35, not so much. Young people reach physical maturity and different ages and it's dangerous to pit full-grown adults against kids who are still developing physically. IMO it has nothing to do with what team you root for or whether they happen to have won with younger or older players.
 
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