NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

[Gurtholfin]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Here's another thread that Dubbie-Wubbie has railroaded. All under the guise of having "honest questions" that he's "really interested in the responses to."

The thing is that theses honest questions and observations ALWAYS have the same goal in mind - to prop up Minnesota as the bestest college hockey program of all time. It's not even thinly veiled. Every thread he's in - EVERY. It's obvious and transparent and that is the reason that people call him on it.

As Dirty said, without fail Dubbie will play the victim at that point. "What? That's not what i was saying? I just had an honest question."

Thank God he's not in the cafe or we'd have to hear ad nauseum how the Replacements were the best rock band ever or how Minnesota is the best place to take a vacation etc, etc, etc.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Here's another thread that Dubbie-Wubbie has railroaded. All under the guise of having "honest questions" that he's "really interested in the responses to."

The thing is that theses honest questions and observations ALWAYS have the same goal in mind - to prop up Minnesota as the bestest college hockey program of all time. It's not even thinly veiled. Every thread he's in - EVERY. It's obvious and transparent and that is the reason that people call him on it.

As Dirty said, without fail Dubbie will play the victim at that point. "What? That's not what i was saying? I just had an honest question."

Thank God he's not in the cafe or we'd have to hear ad nauseum how the Replacements were the best rock band ever or how Minnesota is the best place to take a vacation etc, etc, etc.

Hey, I never said Minnesota was the best program in college hockey in this thread. You just did.

As for this thread, HumRsky I am sorry for attracting unwanted attention to this thread. My questions have been answered, so I will move on and hopefully the unwanted attention will follow.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

As for this formula and this measurement, I think it is solid, and does a good job in looking at a team's on-ice accomplishments during the era.

It's not bad, but could be improved by awarding a point or two for national championships at the D-III and D-II levels. Surely those are worth at least as much as a D-I minor conference championship?


Powers &8^]

 

[HumRsky]

Hey, I never said Minnesota was the best program in college hockey in this thread. You just did.

As for this thread, HumRsky I am sorry for attracting unwanted attention to this thread. My questions have been answered, so I will move on and hopefully the unwanted attention will follow.

I would be hypocritical to be mad about it, I also got sucked in and participated in getting this thread off track. Apology accepted though

As for lower division titles, I don't begrudge any team for celebrating and being proud of those accomplishments, but I feel it's appropriate to only consider D1 accomplishments when comparing D1 programs.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

I think my questions were perfectly acceptable and on topic.

No. No they weren't. Both FS23's thread and this one were quite clear in what they were doing. Your problem has always been that they do it at all. That has no business here.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

As for lower division titles, I don't begrudge any team for celebrating and being proud of those accomplishments, but I feel it's appropriate to only consider D1 accomplishments when comparing D1 programs.

I'm not surprised you feel that way, but I think it's a little short-sighted.


Powers &8^]

 

[Priceless]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Wow. What a freaking gong show. I was going to do a list of teams from 1984 (the eastern split and advent of 4 major conferences) but after browsing through this "discussion" I realize there's no point. Saved me a lot of trouble as I couldn't track down results of the CCHA Tournament that long ago.

 

[HumRsky]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Wow. What a freaking gong show. I was going to do a list of teams from 1984 (the eastern split and advent of 4 major conferences) but after browsing through this "discussion" I realize there's no point. Saved me a lot of trouble as I couldn't track down results of the CCHA Tournament that long ago.

We got off track a little, and I'm not innocent in that, but when the discussion has been on-topic it has been productive and enjoyable (to me).

 

[HumRsky]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

I will repost, so people don't have to look all the way back:
This is a ranking I put together of every current D1 hockey team based only on what they have accomplished; winning %, NCAA win % and other metrics were not considered. This is not intended to be better than FS23's in any way. This represents about 4-5 hours of research and math, not years and I do believe that the metrics FS23 used are very valid for comparing programs, this is just another way of ranking the teams.

The scoring system I used is as follows:
National Title (NT) - 10pts
Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

Further explanation:
Minor Conference Titles are designated with a lowercase "m," so if a team has one minor conference title it would be designated 1m in that column. Similarly, for the seasons in which there were two WCHA playoff "winners" I gave those teams half credit, or 2 points and those titles are designated with a lowercase "h," so if a team was a playoff co-winner 7 times, it will be designated 7h in that column. I gave full credit to all regular season champions, even co-Champions, because I didn't feel like going back and sorting through all that.
The Tri-State League and the Ivy League are considered major conference champions from 1948-49 until the formation of the ECAC in 1961-62. This gave teams in those league perhaps an unfair advantage, Harvard and St. Lawrence were helped particularly by this inclusion and people will probably bemoan how high they are ranked. The champions of those leagues after the formation of the ECAC were not included. I considered the first season of the Midwest Collegiate Hockey League in 1951-52 as the first season of the WCHA. I considered all CCHA championships as major although a strong argument could be made that it was not a major conference until the late '70s. The minor conference I used are MAAC/Atlantic Hockey, College Hockey America, and the Great West.

Note that points are cumulative. For example, another way of looking at the points is that a National Title is worth 25 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 4 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance, 1 National Title) and a runner up is worth 14 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 3 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance) and so on... People will probably also gripe that, particularly in the minor conferences, the playoff title should be worth more because of the auto-bid, but don't forget the auto-bid means an NCAA appearance and an automatic 2 additional points that are not guaranteed to the Regular Season Champion.

I will list all of the numbers and total points, so if you really don't like my point system, come up with your own and plug it into the numbers given.
The rankings will be in the next post...discuss.

 

[HumRsky]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

And for Comparison's Sake, here is FS23's rankings:

1. Michigan - 492.1054 points
2. North Dakota - 439.9358 points
3. Minnesota - 411.0563 points
4. Denver - 353.8417 points
5. Boston College 349.1316 points
6. Boston University 345.4844 points
7. Wisconsin - 340.5347 points
8. Michigan State - 234.6119 points
9. Maine - 170.4416 points
10. Michigan Tech - 161.3680 points
11. Cornell - 155.2406 points
12. LSSU - 154.1266 points
13. Colorado College - 148.9003 points
14. Clarkson - 123.7410 points
15. Harvard - 119.2895 points
16. Minnesota Duluth - 110.5424 points
17. RPI - 98.5607 points
18. Northern Michigan - 80.9381 points
19. New Hampshire - 79.7827 points
20. Bowling Green - 79.5213 points
21. St. Lawrence - 64.4836 points
22. Miami - 43.0583 points
23. Providence - 37.8025 points
24. Notre Dame - 37.2961 points
25. Dartmouth 35.3232 points
26. Yale - 33.6690 points
27. Colgate - 28.9543 points
28. Ferris State - 27.3798 points
29. Northeastern - 25.0440 points
30. Brown - 18.5029 points
31. Ohio State - 17.3244 points
32. Vermont - 15.8458 points
33. SCSU - 13.8159 points
34. Bemidji State - 12.3413 points
35. Union - 11.6379 points
36. RIT - 9.5637 points
37. Lowell - 8.5005 points
38. Western Michigan - 7.2926 points
39. Niagara - 6.7155 points
40. Air Force - 6.0956 points
41. Princeton - 5.4220 points
42. Anchorage - 5.3976 points
43. Holy Cross - 4.9548 points
44. Quinnipiac - 4.1548 points
45. Merrimack - 4.1040 points
46. Omaha -3.7569 points
47. Mercyhurst - 3.6398 points
48. Alaska - 3.1866 points
49. Massachusetts - 3.1275 points
50. Mankato - 2.6048 points
51. Alabama Huntsville - 2.2262 points
52. Army - 1.3795 points
53. UConn - 0.2446 points
54. Sacred Heart - 0.1570 points
55. Canisius - 0.0279 points
56. Robert Morris - 0.0267 points
57. Bentley - 0.0255 points
58. American International - 0.0079 points
59. Penn State - 0.0000 points

 

[UncleRay]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

I find it interesting how closely the two formulas ranked the teams. Most teams only move a spot or two one way or the other. One difference is that it will take PSU at least a season to get out of the tie for the cellar in yours, whereas in FSU's they could theoretically get out of the cellar with their first DI game.

Glad to see this back on track. I would have thought it horribly obvious that "greatest" is subjective. And that the components that would go into any "greatest" formula are themselves subjective. Thereby making it impossible to not only determine the "greatest," but to come up with the single formula that would definitively name the "greatest". Apparently not everybody knows Captain Obvious.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

I find it interesting how closely the two formulas ranked the teams. Most teams only move a spot or two one way or the other. One difference is that it will take PSU at least a season to get out of the tie for the cellar in yours, whereas in FSU's they could theoretically get out of the cellar with their first DI game.

Glad to see this back on track. I would have thought it horribly obvious that "greatest" is subjective. And that the components that would go into any "greatest" formula are themselves subjective. Thereby making it impossible to not only determine the "greatest," but to come up with the single formula that would definitively name the "greatest". Apparently not everybody knows Captain Obvious.

We can pick the topic back up if you want to, or we can just give it a rest?

 

[HumRsky]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Championship season is upon us, Quinnipiac and Niagara have already locked up regular season titles and I thought I'd dig this up to see where teams stand and where they might end up by the end of the season. I've already added the aforementioned titles that have been earned so far this year, and also added an NCAA appearance to Lake Superior State's total that I had erroneously left out last year.
The scoring system I used is as follows:
National Title (NT) - 10pts
Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

For a full explanation, go to the first post in the thread.

 

[4four4]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Here's another thread that Dubbie-Wubbie has railroaded. All under the guise of having "honest questions" that he's "really interested in the responses to."

The thing is that theses honest questions and observations ALWAYS have the same goal in mind - to prop up Minnesota as the bestest college hockey program of all time. It's not even thinly veiled. Every thread he's in - EVERY. It's obvious and transparent and that is the reason that people call him on it.

As Dirty said, without fail Dubbie will play the victim at that point. "What? That's not what i was saying? I just had an honest question."

Thank God he's not in the cafe or we'd have to hear ad nauseum how the Replacements were the best rock band ever or how Minnesota is the best place to take a vacation etc, etc, etc.

Gurt, the Replacements were the best rock band ever its not even debatable.;p

 

[4four4]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Championship season is upon us, Quinnipiac and Niagara have already locked up regular season titles and I thought I'd dig this up to see where teams stand and where they might end up by the end of the season. I've already added the aforementioned titles that have been earned so far this year, and also added an NCAA appearance to Lake Superior State's total that I had erroneously left out last year.
The scoring system I used is as follows:
National Title (NT) - 10pts
Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

For a full explanation, go to the first post in the thread.

In my opinion It is very hard to place second which is why I believe second place deserves more points, maybe 7 points.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Gurt, the Replacements were the best rock band ever its not even debatable.;p

Yes, there's that...

 

[4four4]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Yes, there's that...

On the way in the store 89.3 the Current played "Sky Way". Possibly, the greatest Replacement song eva. ;P

 

[GopherBigGuy911]

This is a ranking I put together of every current D1 hockey team based only on what they have accomplished; winning %, NCAA win % and other metrics were not considered. This is not intended to be better than FS23's in any way. This represents about 4-5 hours of research and math, not years and I do believe that the metrics FS23 used are very valid for comparing programs, this is just another way of ranking the teams.

The scoring system I used is as follows:
National Title (NT) - 10pts
Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

Further explanation:
Minor Conference Titles are designated with a lowercase "m," so if a team has one minor conference title it would be designated 1m in that column. Similarly, for the seasons in which there were two WCHA playoff "winners" I gave those teams half credit, or 2 points and those titles are designated with a lowercase "h," so if a team was a playoff co-winner 7 times, it will be designated 7h in that column. I gave full credit to all regular season champions, even co-Champions, because I didn't feel like going back and sorting through all that.
The Tri-State League and the Ivy League are considered major conference champions from 1948-49 until the formation of the ECAC in 1961-62. This gave teams in those league perhaps an unfair advantage, Harvard and St. Lawrence were helped particularly by this inclusion and people will probably bemoan how high they are ranked. The champions of those leagues after the formation of the ECAC were not included. I considered the first season of the Midwest Collegiate Hockey League in 1951-52 as the first season of the WCHA. I considered all CCHA championships as major although a strong argument could be made that it was not a major conference until the late '70s. The minor conference I used are MAAC/Atlantic Hockey, College Hockey America, and the Great West.

Note that points are cumulative. For example, another way of looking at the points is that a National Title is worth 25 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 4 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance, 1 National Title) and a runner up is worth 14 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 3 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance) and so on... People will probably also gripe that, particularly in the minor conferences, the playoff title should be worth more because of the auto-bid, but don't forget the auto-bid means an NCAA appearance and an automatic 2 additional points that are not guaranteed to the Regular Season Champion.

I will list all of the numbers and total points, so if you really don't like my point system, come up with your own and plug it into the numbers given.
The rankings will be in the next post...discuss.

If you are counting NCAA Championships..... Then Bemidji State should be kicking EVERYONE'S ***.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

There are subjective factors that cannot be quantitated mathmatically.

ah, but if you cannot measure something, how can you tell whether it really exists? it might merely be an artifact of your imagination....

or is this now an Aquinas vs Sartre throwdown??

 

[blackswampboy]

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

If you are counting NCAA Championships..... Then Bemidji State should be kicking EVERYONE'S ***.

if you really want to go there...Middlebury kicks BSU's ***.