NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

[LakerFan99]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

As of right now it looks like they would take two ECAC W teams in pool C over Castleton.

The last 2 bracketology posts from "the other site" predict exactly that. Presuming those leading their conferences win their AQ...Plattsburgh, Elmira and Manhattanville (by the numbers) are the Pool Cs. Of course, we all know the selection process is less than perfect and know that the likelihood of all current conference leaders winning their AQ is slim.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

That's what I thought.

For some reason the Northeast-10 page on USCHO does not have Saint Anslem or St. Mike's listed. I wasn't aware DII and DIII teams could be in the same conference.

The games against St. Anselm and St. Mike's count for conference standings, but not for NCAA rankings. During the days of the interlock, those games counted for the NESCAC, too.

St. Mike's and St. Anselm are both concurrently members of the ECAC-E and the NE-10, but may only participate in the NE-10's conference tournament. As a result of their dual-membership, the NE-10 has had to accommodate them, of course. As such, the Saints play the other four teams once each (rotating Home/Away each year), while the 4 remaining teams play each other 3 times each with the 2pt going to the series winner (1pt each for an 0-0-3 or 1-1-1 series). The league policy seems to ignore the fact that St. A and St. M paly twice this year, so I'm not sure what they're doing with that yet...

Despite USCHO's failure to put them in the standings, the current standings according to the NE-10 website are:

[U]School[/U]	[U]Pts[/U]	[U]GP[/U]	[U]C. Record[/U]	[U]O. Record[/U]
Assumption	7pt	10	7-2-1		12-8-1
St. Anselm	7pt	4	3-0-1		11-8-3
St. Michael's	5pt	4	2-1-1		6-14-2
Franklin Pierce	4pt	10	4-4-2		5-11-4
Stonehill	3pt	8	4-3-1		7-11-2
S. New Hampsire	0pt	10	0-10-0		1-19-1

 

[Steve Day]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

It's my understanding htat the ECAC has decided that StMIkes and St A's get an additional two years, wiht possibly two more after that! For the record, I'm not in favor.

Not in favor also Just hope those 4 Games don't bite NU in the ***

 

[NUProf]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

A couple thoughts:

I think Norwich and Castleton both get hurt by the fact that they have to play 4 D2 games. If they can't figure out a solution after this 2-year buffer period or whatever, I hope that the league lets them go. As much as I hate the fact that two teams might be left in the cold, it just doesn't make sense to play 4 games that don't count. Imagine if Norwich and Castleton were able to play 4 more non-league games against good teams and went 3-1 or 4-0, we'd be looking at Norwich as #1 and Castleton ahead of the ECAC-W teams thanks to WIN and RNK. Now, I know it could also backfire if you went 1-3 or 0-4 in those non-league games, but at least they would count. I'd rather see my team play games that count and take their chances.

Bowdoin could still sneak up on the ECAC-W teams if they go 4-0 then lose to Amherst in the finals. Either that, or another team beats Amherst in the tourney and Amherst gets the Pool C. I don't know why, but I just have a strange feeling that somehow the NESCAC is going to get two teams in.

I think the "missing" 4 games are statistically much less important than many people think. It does make every game more important to the overall ratings, but Norwich's schedule had six games against ranked teams, and except for the tie with Plattsburgh, they won them all. If you add four NC games, they are not all going to be against ranked teams. You have to look at who has spots in the schedule, and adding 4 NC games might allow for a couple of games against ECAC West teams - and they will have 3 fewer NC games next year because of the addition of Nazareth. Just because you have NC games doesn't automatically mean you can fill them with great match ups. Norwich had a good NC schedule - they lost out one one more game against a ranked team when Elmira didn't make it to the NSB finals. Castleton just did not win games against ranked teams. That's what hurt them, give them maybe two more, and they would still have a bad RNK.

 

[VT bragging rights]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

I’m not in favor of St Mikes or St A’s staying. The only benefit for keeping St Mikes is
• Short travel distance up I-89 to Carnes Arena
• Pad the players offensive stats
• Gives a chance to play the back-up goalie and players that normally do not start

 

[AldenPartridge1819]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

I think the "missing" 4 games are statistically much less important than many people think. It does make every game more important to the overall ratings, but Norwich's schedule had six games against ranked teams, and except for the tie with Plattsburgh, they won them all. If you add four NC games, they are not all going to be against ranked teams. You have to look at who has spots in the schedule, and adding 4 NC games might allow for a couple of games against ECAC West teams - and they will have 3 fewer NC games next year because of the addition of Nazareth. Just because you have NC games doesn't automatically mean you can fill them with great match ups. Norwich had a good NC schedule - they lost out one one more game against a ranked team when Elmira didn't make it to the NSB finals. Castleton just did not win games against ranked teams. That's what hurt them, give them maybe two more, and they would still have a bad RNK.

I personally think that Norwich would be able to schedule some nice games with 4 extra slots. Maybe an ECAC-W, a SUNYAC, a NESCAC, then an old rival like Salem. Those would be great additions to the schedule. I'm not looking for home-and-homes with Oswego every year, I'm just looking for solid games that count.

 

[NUProf]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

I personally think that Norwich would be able to schedule some nice games with 4 extra slots. Maybe an ECAC-W, a SUNYAC, a NESCAC, then an old rival like Salem. Those would be great additions to the schedule. I'm not looking for home-and-homes with Oswego every year, I'm just looking for solid games that count.

It would be nice, but I don't think the situation (by the numbers) is as crucial as many people think it is. It just makes the remaining games proportionately more important. We've always had two games with those teams anyway.

 

[AldenPartridge1819]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

We've always had two games with those teams anyway.

Very true, and I've always thought it was dumb to have league games against teams that disappeared at the end of the regular season. My strong negative feelings are doubled just as the games have been.

 

[nysportsfan29]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

It would be nice, but I don't think the situation (by the numbers) is as crucial as many people think it is. It just makes the remaining games proportionately more important. We've always had two games with those teams anyway.

If those 4 games against St. A and St. Mike's were to count, would that be more of a help or a hindrance?

Obviously the win % goes up with 4 more wins. At the same time, it's 2 games against a mediocre 11 win team and 2 against a less than good 6 win team. Would that SOS hit be more than the win % bump?

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

A couple thoughts:

I think Norwich and Castleton both get hurt by the fact that they have to play 4 D2 games. If they can't figure out a solution after this 2-year buffer period or whatever, I hope that the league lets them go. As much as I hate the fact that two teams might be left in the cold, it just doesn't make sense to play 4 games that don't count. Imagine if Norwich and Castleton were able to play 4 more non-league games against good teams and went 3-1 or 4-0, we'd be looking at Norwich as #1 and Castleton ahead of the ECAC-W teams thanks to WIN and RNK. Now, I know it could also backfire if you went 1-3 or 0-4 in those non-league games, but at least they would count. I'd rather see my team play games that count and take their chances.

Bowdoin could still sneak up on the ECAC-W teams if they go 4-0 then lose to Amherst in the finals. Either that, or another team beats Amherst in the tourney and Amherst gets the Pool C. I don't know why, but I just have a strange feeling that somehow the NESCAC is going to get two teams in.

Bowdion would not be happy to see Oz if they make the NCAAS

 

[NUProf]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

If those 4 games against St. A and St. Mike's were to count, would that be more of a help or a hindrance?

Obviously the win % goes up with 4 more wins. At the same time, it's 2 games against a mediocre 11 win team and 2 against a less than good 6 win team. Would that SOS hit be more than the win % bump?

I can check that info out

 

[DIIIFan]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

The ECAC West teams records are over inflated for they are really the records against themselves, minus the Oswego games (ECAC W vs Oswego 2-4). What is the ECAC teams records vs non ECAC ranked teams. I would bet that they have a loosing records.
Oswego '89

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

The ECAC West teams records are over inflated for they are really the records against themselves, minus the Oswego games (ECAC W vs Oswego 2-4). What is the ECAC teams records vs non ECAC ranked teams. I would bet that they have a loosing records.
Oswego '89

Good thing you're not in Vegas

Only Manhattanville has a losing record at 0-1-2
Elmira 3-3-0
Hobart 1-1-0
Manhattanville 0-1-2
Neumann 2-1-0
Utica 2-2-0

I think I got them right...

 

[norm1909]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

The ECAC West teams records are over inflated for they are really the records against themselves, minus the Oswego games (ECAC W vs Oswego 2-4). What is the ECAC teams records vs non ECAC ranked teams. I would bet that they have a loosing records.
Oswego '89

It might make sense to feel safe betting that they have loosing records against the conference leaders but betting they have a losing record versus "non ECAC ranked teams" is IMO, silly. They might not be "godly", but their OOC wins is always the envy of MOST "non-ranked" teams.

 

[DIIIFan]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

OK I like my crow med-well. I will never be convinced that E-W conference will be considered the toughest.
Oswego '89

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

OK I like my crow med-well. I will never be convinced that E-W conference will be considered the toughest.
Oswego '89

They may not have an elite term like a Norwich or Oswego but its tough to argue against the ecac west top to bottom.

All five teams can beat anybody on any given day in conference and out of conference. You can't say that about any other conference.

 

[nysportsfan29]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

All five teams can beat anybody on any given day in conference and out of conference. You can't say that about any other conference.

But, perhaps, part of the reason you can say that is because there are only 5 teams.

It will be interesting to see if you can continue to say that once they add Nazareth. If Naz starts out as a doormat like LVC was (I wouldn't count on them being quite as bad) it will hurt the ECAC West's SOS argument since they'll be playing an extra 2 or 3 games (or however many they decide) against a sub .500 opponent.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

But, perhaps, part of the reason you can say that is because there are only 5 teams.

It will be interesting to see if you can continue to say that once they add Nazareth. If Naz starts out as a doormat like LVC was (I wouldn't count on them being quite as bad) it will hurt the ECAC West's SOS argument since they'll be playing an extra 2 or 3 games (or however many they decide) against a sub .500 opponent.

You're absolutely correct.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

They may not have an elite term like a Norwich or Oswego but its tough to argue against the ecac west top to bottom.

All five teams can beat anybody on any given day in conference and out of conference. You can't say that about any other conference.

I think you could say that about the NCHA.

 

[norm1909]

Re: NCAA - D-III Men's Ice Hockey Rankings - Generated 02/14/2012

You're absolutely correct.

I am not the biggest fan of George Roll, ok, I am not even a little bit of a fan of George Roll (goes back to the Romney days), but I do respect him. Nazareth, might not be the high performing start up like Cardinal's Women's team was, but I would be surprised if they hit the ground running - even in the repectable ECAC-West.