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NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
- Thread starter scillacc
- Start date
MICZamboni
Mr. Know It All
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
Those darn Canucks.
So this means what? Chatham isn't eligible for postseason play?
Those darn Canucks.
So this means what? Chatham isn't eligible for postseason play?
Hux
Alfond to Ridder & rinks in between
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
It wouldn't appear that they got much of an advantage out of this, based on their record.
It wouldn't appear that they got much of an advantage out of this, based on their record.
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
Based on the text here I would say the school is at fault for putting these discounts in place and then making what would appear to be no effort at all to recruit regular Canadian students to come to school there. If 9 student athletes receiving this aid can cause a major imbalance in the awarding of financial aid, then the school was not doing any actual work to bring regular internationals down from Canada for school.
The hockey team used the system that was in place effectively, which they have to do, as recruiting in Canada is the only way they can ever be competitive.
The University obviously thought the hockey team would recruit from around Pittsburgh like every other sports program at the school can do because they are playing non-nationally competitive schedules like the hockey team does. There was a total lack of understanding of what it would take to provide a competitive hockey team and how it would affect the larger financial aid picture.
Based on the text here I would say the school is at fault for putting these discounts in place and then making what would appear to be no effort at all to recruit regular Canadian students to come to school there. If 9 student athletes receiving this aid can cause a major imbalance in the awarding of financial aid, then the school was not doing any actual work to bring regular internationals down from Canada for school.
The hockey team used the system that was in place effectively, which they have to do, as recruiting in Canada is the only way they can ever be competitive.
The University obviously thought the hockey team would recruit from around Pittsburgh like every other sports program at the school can do because they are playing non-nationally competitive schedules like the hockey team does. There was a total lack of understanding of what it would take to provide a competitive hockey team and how it would affect the larger financial aid picture.
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
Are there any players who will be juniors or seniors this year still on the roster who also receive Canadian student discount? If the answer is yes, then the school is not eligible for post-season play. If the answer is no, then there's no penalty beyond probation for the school.
notfromaroundhere
A visitor in any town!
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
The basic problem here is that a scholarship was put in place around the time that a hockey program was started that disproportionately helped hockey players. So as much as Chatham's administration shortchanged the hockey program in getting coaching, etc., they also helped them out too much in allowing the hockey coach to be the primary advertiser of these scholarships. If another organization (department/program) had taken this Canadian Discount and built up a successful recruiting effort, the NCAA wouldn't be an issue.
Other hockey playing D3 schools have Canadian discounts (Oswego comes to mind here), but don't get caught up in this problem because they do attract non-athletes successfully. Don't know the history, but perhaps there is another reason for Canadians to go to Oswego besides hockey.
Perhaps Chatham should enhance its FA for applicants from outside a 100 mile radius of Pittsburgh instead. That should dilute the population receiving the aid enough to slide in enough Canadians to get the team competitive.
The basic problem here is that a scholarship was put in place around the time that a hockey program was started that disproportionately helped hockey players. So as much as Chatham's administration shortchanged the hockey program in getting coaching, etc., they also helped them out too much in allowing the hockey coach to be the primary advertiser of these scholarships. If another organization (department/program) had taken this Canadian Discount and built up a successful recruiting effort, the NCAA wouldn't be an issue.
Other hockey playing D3 schools have Canadian discounts (Oswego comes to mind here), but don't get caught up in this problem because they do attract non-athletes successfully. Don't know the history, but perhaps there is another reason for Canadians to go to Oswego besides hockey.
Perhaps Chatham should enhance its FA for applicants from outside a 100 mile radius of Pittsburgh instead. That should dilute the population receiving the aid enough to slide in enough Canadians to get the team competitive.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
I guess we should have paid more attention and saw the writing on the wall when McNaughton and Campbell were listed as transfering on BTD.
This really is too bad. A team that already had a hard time competing just suffered a major setback and I feel this is the first step towards the University eventually dropping the program from Varsity status.
I guess we should have paid more attention and saw the writing on the wall when McNaughton and Campbell were listed as transfering on BTD.
This really is too bad. A team that already had a hard time competing just suffered a major setback and I feel this is the first step towards the University eventually dropping the program from Varsity status.
SeymoreHockey
New member
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
Hopefully the school will use this to axe the women's hockey team. It was such a monumental waste of gas and energy to travel to play this team. They were without question the worst team I've ever witnessed. A single A peewee team from Ontario would have wooped them! Totally embarassing... a good opportunity to just "go away."
Hopefully the school will use this to axe the women's hockey team. It was such a monumental waste of gas and energy to travel to play this team. They were without question the worst team I've ever witnessed. A single A peewee team from Ontario would have wooped them! Totally embarassing... a good opportunity to just "go away."
posttopost2
New member
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
Chatham Coach Jason Evans Head Ice Hockey Coch
Evans comes from Robert Morris University in Moon Township, PA, where he served as head coach of the ACHA Division I Ice Hockey Team. Under Evans, the team compiled a 117-71-3 record with 3 conference regular season championships, 4 conference playoff championships and three trips to the ACHA Division I National Tournament. In addition to the team awards, Evans was also the recipient of three conference coach of the year awards. A graduate of Robert Morris University with a Bachelor of Science Business Administration in Sports Management, Evans also earned his Level 5 Certification from USA Hockey. He has been active in local and regional hockey events over the years including the Chicago High School Showcase and Washington Capitals High School Symposium.
Chatham Coach Jason Evans Head Ice Hockey Coch
Evans comes from Robert Morris University in Moon Township, PA, where he served as head coach of the ACHA Division I Ice Hockey Team. Under Evans, the team compiled a 117-71-3 record with 3 conference regular season championships, 4 conference playoff championships and three trips to the ACHA Division I National Tournament. In addition to the team awards, Evans was also the recipient of three conference coach of the year awards. A graduate of Robert Morris University with a Bachelor of Science Business Administration in Sports Management, Evans also earned his Level 5 Certification from USA Hockey. He has been active in local and regional hockey events over the years including the Chicago High School Showcase and Washington Capitals High School Symposium.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
I think you're being a bit harsh here Seymore butts.
Not every team can be an Amherst, Elmira, Plattsburgh, and Middlebury...
They were making improvements and starting become more competitive and had won some games.
For a few years Elmira and Plattsburgh owed a big thank you for fielding a program so that the ECAC West could be eligible for the automatic bid.
I for one would be sad to see the program go and this is coming from an Oswego alumnus, the school which Chatham won its first D-III varsity game, snapping a 96-game losing streak IIRC.
I think you're being a bit harsh here Seymore butts.
Not every team can be an Amherst, Elmira, Plattsburgh, and Middlebury...
They were making improvements and starting become more competitive and had won some games.
For a few years Elmira and Plattsburgh owed a big thank you for fielding a program so that the ECAC West could be eligible for the automatic bid.
I for one would be sad to see the program go and this is coming from an Oswego alumnus, the school which Chatham won its first D-III varsity game, snapping a 96-game losing streak IIRC.
SeymoreHockey
New member
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
In four years of watching...the games were nothing more than a farce and an embarassment. Sorry if you think it's harsh, but the league would have been stronger had they let a novice A team compete instead. And I'm NOT exagerrating either.
In four years of watching...the games were nothing more than a farce and an embarassment. Sorry if you think it's harsh, but the league would have been stronger had they let a novice A team compete instead. And I'm NOT exagerrating either.
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
Clearly you didn't see some of the games in the past few years, or you only went to ones against the top 2 teams in the league. Can't say they didn't get any better when they were losing every game by about 10 goals when they first started to getting some wins and close games against decent teams.
In four years of watching...the games were nothing more than a farce and an embarassment. Sorry if you think it's harsh, but the league would have been stronger had they let a novice A team compete instead. And I'm NOT exagerrating either.
Clearly you didn't see some of the games in the past few years, or you only went to ones against the top 2 teams in the league. Can't say they didn't get any better when they were losing every game by about 10 goals when they first started to getting some wins and close games against decent teams.
gojackets
New member
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
Clearly the NCAA doesn't pay attention to D3 womens hockey if they think Chatham had a "substantial" competitive advantage. Am I understanding correctly that the scholarship was specific to Canadian students?? I could see the problem with that. I think UWS gets away with their TAP program because it applies to all International students and they get or used to get a lot of sri lankans, chinese, japanese students. They did change the program awhile back where non-Canadian international students only got a 75% waiver, but the canadians still got 100%, which I could see as problematic...not sure if it is still the same way now.
Clearly the NCAA doesn't pay attention to D3 womens hockey if they think Chatham had a "substantial" competitive advantage. Am I understanding correctly that the scholarship was specific to Canadian students?? I could see the problem with that. I think UWS gets away with their TAP program because it applies to all International students and they get or used to get a lot of sri lankans, chinese, japanese students. They did change the program awhile back where non-Canadian international students only got a 75% waiver, but the canadians still got 100%, which I could see as problematic...not sure if it is still the same way now.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
Curious as to why you're singling out these two teams?
Curious as to why you're singling out these two teams?
fanof the game
Registered User
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
Don't think that many Canadian players were really interested in Chatham. The "advantage" didn't seem to generate huge interest in most of the PWHL players I've known over the past 4-5 years. Many do choose D3 schools that have some international funding but as it's universal, I think it will likely stay in place. Some D3 "academic" funding is a bit dodgy to me. I was told by a D3 coach that a player would qualify at his school if they had an average over 65%!!!
Don't think that many Canadian players were really interested in Chatham. The "advantage" didn't seem to generate huge interest in most of the PWHL players I've known over the past 4-5 years. Many do choose D3 schools that have some international funding but as it's universal, I think it will likely stay in place. Some D3 "academic" funding is a bit dodgy to me. I was told by a D3 coach that a player would qualify at his school if they had an average over 65%!!!
Re: NCAA Chatham Univ Infractions Report
i remember looking at chatham's roster in preparation for the 08-09 season, and remember having a puzzled feeling when i saw the number of canadians who joined the team. the whole team was revamped and i discussed with some people at the time what it could mean for the program and if they could become competitive against any of the top teams in the ECACW. funny how it all comes full circle as to why so many canadians popped up on the roster all in the same year.
i remember looking at chatham's roster in preparation for the 08-09 season, and remember having a puzzled feeling when i saw the number of canadians who joined the team. the whole team was revamped and i discussed with some people at the time what it could mean for the program and if they could become competitive against any of the top teams in the ECACW. funny how it all comes full circle as to why so many canadians popped up on the roster all in the same year.