Nascar 2012

[Hammer]

Re: Nascar 2012

How in the world did they manage to crash on the 2nd lap?

You ever watch the Indy 500? If there's not a crash in the 1st two laps it's a minor miracle.

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: Nascar 2012

I brought up a question earlier on the first page. How come they didn't race on rain slicks a la F1?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Nascar 2012

I brought up a question earlier on the first page. How come they didn't race on rain slicks a la F1?

I don't think that would be even close to working with a stock car. These cars just aren't made to handle like an F1 car. As it is, on a dry track, if you touch the left rear the car will spin, I can't imagine what would happen if they tried that with a wet track. Plus they spend countless hours and dollars on testing with these specific tires, to determine how long they will last and the exact setup that the car needs, adding the wild card of saying 5 hours before the race that they're switching to a different tire would be ****ty.

 

[aparch]

I brought up a question earlier on the first page. How come they didn't race on rain slicks a la F1?

The only time they ran on rain tires was a few years back during the Montreal road course race in the Busch (Nationwide / Grand National) series. And only then were they used only during light rain / damp track conditions because the drivers had to frequently slow down and were not reaching high speeds.

The "taxi cabs" don't produce as much downforce as F1/Indy cars, as evidenced by how squirrelly the cars were, with dry pavement, at Daytona. They'd be hydroplaning at 200 MPH heading into a corner.

 

[MattS]

Re: Nascar 2012

I brought up a question earlier on the first page. How come they didn't race on rain slicks a la F1?

In my opinion there are several factors. Like aparch mentioned downforce being one of the biggest. F1 cars produce massive amounts of downforce. Many times that of a NASCAR car. The treads on full wet tires of F1 are designed to literally pump water away so they are essentially running on "dry" pavement. The whole basis of the full wets is that the cars produce enough downforce to not hydroplane and to allow the tires to pump hundreds of gallons of water away from the car.

Another factor is that the water would be running down the track perpendicular to the racing line. I think this would cause lots of problems also.

Then there is the viewing factor. It can be havoc to see on a road track let alone on a "oval" where all the cars are bunched together. The spray from the tires would make it impossible to see anything.

Plus they spend countless hours and dollars on testing with these specific tires, to determine how long they will last and the exact setup that the car needs, adding the wild card of saying 5 hours before the race that they're switching to a different tire would be ****ty.

I think this in theory would be a non-factor. If the teams knew at the start of the season that there are going to be rain tires used then they could prepare for them accordingly.

The only time they ran on rain tires was a few years back during the Montreal road course race in the Busch (Nationwide / Grand National) series. And only then were they used only during light rain / damp track conditions because the drivers had to frequently slow down and were not reaching high speeds.

I believe rain tires were available for the Winston Cup cars back in the early '90's but I don't think they were ever used in a race.

 

[aparch]

Re: Nascar 2012

I believe rain tires were available for the Winston Cup cars back in the early '90's but I don't think they were ever used in a race.

They're generally always available for Cup races, but Nascar refuses to use them. I think the Montreal race used them because Goodyear told Nascar that they weren't going to produce another rain tire again if they were going to keep jerking them around for two decades.

http://www.nascar.com/news/110814/watkins-glen-rain-tires/index.html

Pemberton went on to add that there are reasons behind why rain tires are made available occasionally in the Nationwide Series, when they aren't in Cup. Had it rained Saturday at Watkins Glen, rain tires were at the ready for the Nationwide teams competing in the Zippo 200.

"When we're running with the Nationwide cars and stuff, there are different things that go into that," Pemberton said. "They have logistics and other things that need to be considered. It's not about quality of driver or anything like that. It's about a lot of things that go into putting on an event all weekend long.

"It started in Japan a number of years ago, because logistically we had to race and we had to get home. Same thing in Mexico, same thing in Canada. When the Nationwide Series runs on Saturdays, they need to get done and get on to the next event."

So basically, Trucks/Grand National will have rain tires available at road courses to them to allow them to get onto the next event. The top touring series (Sprint Cup) will continue to be the "for show, dry, daytime/primetime racing" series.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Nascar 2012

I, for one, would not want to go 200mph in one of those cars, in rain, no matter the tires being used. That'd be crazy. The road courses are a different story.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Nascar 2012

Why is that some Daytona's have been called early and this one wasn't?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Nascar 2012

Why is that some Daytona's have been called early and this one wasn't?

If it would have started to rain after the race reached the halfway point, and the weather looked like it wasn't going to clear up in the next few hours, they would have called it. Generally, if they think it is possible to run the complete 500 miles, they will try to run the whole thing.

edit: Also, they didn't want Dave Blaney to win the thing on a fluke of not pitting with the rest of the group

 

[aparch]

Re: Nascar 2012

edit: Also, they didn't want Dave Blaney to win the thing on a fluke of not pitting with the rest of the group

A few drivers have won races this way much to NASCAR's chagrin.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070713170732/http://www.marcisracing.com/daves_story0703.htm

MarcisRacing.com:

"Richmond: Rain, Radios, and Tollbooths" (In Dave's words, transcribed by Darren Jones)

...

We went to Richmond with it, and qualified well (6th). We were running pretty well in the race, but Joe Ruttman was running very well that day. Joe had just caught us and got by me going into the third turn - actually he was lapping me. Coming out of the fourth turn he lost it and spun. His car went around backwards and it did not cross the start/finish line. Therefore I got back by him right away and crossed the start/finish line without losing a lap. A lot of the other competitors thought I had been lapped, but I hadn't. The weather that day was an iffy situation. It looked like it could rain at any time, though it hadn't yet... The majority of the competitors chose to come in and pit when that caution came out. We stayed out on the race track and caught up to the pace car - which we pretty much had to do anyway before we could pit. That made me the leader at the time. We realized we were the leader and the weather looked iffy, so we elected to stay on the race track. A fellow who was helping me at time (who was actually my crew chief), Jerry Darling, was talking to the crew and they hollered for me to stay on the race track. So we did and everyone else came down pit road. Dale Inman, Richard Petty's crew chief realized what was happening. He quickly changed from a 4-tire pit stop to a 2-tire pit stop to try to get back on the race track and beat the pace car. They didn't make it, they got held up at the end of pit road by a NASCAR inspector. Everyone else did a 4-tire change, so there was no problem there. We were out on the race track while they held Richard in the pits, so Richard ended up following me. During that process, it started to rain. It kept raining and raining, and they had to stop the race.

The race was stopped for quite a while. We had the cars lined up on the back straightaway. At that time Bill Gazaway was the competition director with NASCAR. He was in the tower and one of the NASCAR officials came up to me and said that Mr. Gazaway wanted to talk to me on the radio. They gave me the headset, and I'm not sure what he said… something about stay near the car, they were going to get the race in, they were working on getting the track dry. I told him we wouldn't go anywhere, we were hanging around. When he got done talking I still kind of had the headset on. About 15 minutes later, he came on the radio not knowing I still had the headset. He said they would continue to work, and wait, and get that race track dry because Dave Marcis was not going to win that race! I heard that, and so did some other people. I had the radio pulled down, not completely covering up my ears, kind of pulled down by my neck. Realizing what he had said, some other NASCAR inspectors came over and got the radio from me. I didn't say anything, so I don't think they knew at the time that I had really heard it.

As the day went on it continued to rain and rain. It got dark, the race was half over, and they had to call the event. We ended up being the race winner. It was pouring down rain, so it wasn't too much of a (victory lane) celebration. I was notified then that I'd have to take the car over to one of the exhibition buildings at the fairgrounds for engine tear down. We took the car up there for engine tear down and it was starting to get pretty late at night, probably 8:30 or 9:00. We did the engine tear down, checked the carburetor, everything was OK, no problem. We stood as the winners. In the process of being up there and working on the cars, we drank a couple of beers... everybody was pretty happy.

...

- Dave Marcis

 

[dave29]

Re: Nascar 2012

Cheatin' Chad suspended for the next 6 races along with his car chief and put on probation until May. They are also docked 25 driver and owner points. Rough start for the 48. Hopefully it will continue.

 

[UNH GH]

Re: Nascar 2012

SO, stupid question...

With how long it takes those Jet Driers to work, many times the rain'll stop for say, 4 hours, but they can't get the track dry quick enough to race.


....Why not have a tarp that covers the track, ala baseball? Sure, it'd be huge for a track like Daytona...but what about something like Bristol?

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Re: Nascar 2012

Cheatin' Chad suspended for the next 6 races along with his car chief and put on probation until May. They are also docked 25 driver and owner points. Rough start for the 48. Hopefully it will continue.

I think Johnson is a heck of a driver but Knauss has crossed the line way too many times. Makes you wonder how much they've gotten away with over the last 5 or 6 years. I find it very hard to believe that one team/car/driver could be that much better than the rest of the pack over such a long period of time.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Re: Nascar 2012

Why not have a tarp that covers the track, ala baseball? Sure, it'd be huge for a track like Daytona...but what about something like Bristol?

Even a small track is big when it comes to something like that. Plus it's more than the track surface... there's the aprons and pit road which also need to be dry to race.

I'm waiting for the first domed track!

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Nascar 2012

I don't think a tarp would work, it would take almost as long to roll the thing up again as it would to use the jet driers. I could see, at some point, when the resurface a track, installing electric coils under the track to heat it up some to help the jet driers by causing more evaporation. Obviously, the coils would only be used during a drying situation.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Nascar 2012

I think Johnson is a heck of a driver but Knauss has crossed the line way too many times. Makes you wonder how much they've gotten away with over the last 5 or 6 years. I find it very hard to believe that one team/car/driver could be that much better than the rest of the pack over such a long period of time.

Teams have been cheating almost as long as NASCAR has been in existence.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Nascar 2012

"If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't tryin'"

 

[dave29]

Re: Nascar 2012

I think Johnson is a heck of a driver but Knauss has crossed the line way too many times. Makes you wonder how much they've gotten away with over the last 5 or 6 years. I find it very hard to believe that one team/car/driver could be that much better than the rest of the pack over such a long period of time.

Yep. According to ESPN's article he has been penalized 10 times now. If anything this penalty probably isn't harsh enough. Johnson does go to Phoenix with -23 points in the standings.

 

[state of hockey]

"If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't tryin'"

I like what my father told me when I was in middle school. "Son, if at first you don't succeed, cheat."

 

[bueller]

Re: Nascar 2012

I find it very hard to believe that one team/car/driver could be that much better than the rest of the pack over such a long period of time.

I think it comes down to success at the cookie cutter tracks that make up most of the chase. Knaus and Johnson excel at fuel mileage racing.