Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
Amen.
Amen.
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More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is...
- Thread starter Caustic Undertow
- Start date
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
So, why is their record so poor at the X?
So, why is their record so poor at the X?
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
I don't think "creating a fanbase" is the point of lowering ticket prices - just trying to increase attendance. There are a lot of fans who didn't go due to price, and a lot of people of all interest levels who may decide to go if prices are lower.
I don't think "creating a fanbase" is the point of lowering ticket prices - just trying to increase attendance. There are a lot of fans who didn't go due to price, and a lot of people of all interest levels who may decide to go if prices are lower.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
How can they possibly eliminate flying for enough teams to make a difference?
How can they possibly eliminate flying for enough teams to make a difference?
mnstate0fhockey
New member
They aren't used to playing on the smaller sheet (Mariucci Arena is an Olympic sized sheet), and don't play at the X very often. And like I said, with teams like UND, UMD, UW there, the crowd isn't as pro-Gopher as you'd think.
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
Nice numbers but how many of those are student's who can't afford to travel to the regionals, let alone get off campus?
How about two 'Super Regionals', one out west, one our east. CCHA and WCHA play in the west, HE, ECAC and AHA play in the east (Air Force can play in the west if they ever win the AHA title again.)
Play it out over two weekends (Fri double-header \ Sat Championship) at the same site both weeks with each weekends winner going to the Frozen Four.
This keeps pretty much everybody close to home for the regionals which would boost attendance.
It also builds up rivalry's between the conferences and helps keeps the East \ West Bias issue alive.
TV coverage could be better as well.
Tier the ticket prices.
Plus, give out reduced priced tickets to Youth Hockey leagues, etc... to help fill the seats.
It's a take on the NFL's method of conference play-offs and they do pretty well with it.
of course, if somebody's already suggested this, then never mind......
Nice numbers but how many of those are student's who can't afford to travel to the regionals, let alone get off campus?
How about two 'Super Regionals', one out west, one our east. CCHA and WCHA play in the west, HE, ECAC and AHA play in the east (Air Force can play in the west if they ever win the AHA title again.)
Play it out over two weekends (Fri double-header \ Sat Championship) at the same site both weeks with each weekends winner going to the Frozen Four.
This keeps pretty much everybody close to home for the regionals which would boost attendance.
It also builds up rivalry's between the conferences and helps keeps the East \ West Bias issue alive.
TV coverage could be better as well.
Tier the ticket prices.
Plus, give out reduced priced tickets to Youth Hockey leagues, etc... to help fill the seats.
It's a take on the NFL's method of conference play-offs and they do pretty well with it.
of course, if somebody's already suggested this, then never mind......
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
I think that makes his point all the more - that they still drew relatively well even without the normal student presence.
I think that makes his point all the more - that they still drew relatively well even without the normal student presence.
John Cloninger RPI 96
LET'S GO YOUUUUUUUU RED!!!
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
It would most likely be Miami, but I could see Bowling Green as a possibility as well.
It would most likely be Miami, but I could see Bowling Green as a possibility as well.
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
I'm going to have respectfully disagree with you.
I think the ticket costs are incidental compared to the overall cost of attending, unless you happen to be very close to a given regional you want to attend. And, by very close, I mean so close that transportation, food and lodging are not cost concerns because you don't have to spend any money on them.
I'll use myself as an example. Let's say UNO had made the tourney this season and was in the either the Bridgeport or Worcester regional. After what I am going to spend on plane tickets, lodging, food and transportation to either place, even at the ticket prices as they exist right now, the cost of the tickets themselves are a minor incidental compared to the overall cost of everything else associated with going. Unless tickets were a LOT more expensive than they are now, the cost of the tickets would never even enter into my thinking about whether I was going or not. The tickets are probably less than 10% of the overall cost of going in the first place.
Same thing is true if it just so happened that there was an Omaha regional (and believe me, Omaha has been and is trying to get one) and UNO was in it and I could sleep in my own bed. I'd be there no matter what the ticket cost (unless it involved arms and legs).
Now, if there were an Omaha regional and UNO was NOT in it, then ticket prices might play a role in whether I went or not. It would depend on the teams involved and the cost of those tickets. And, I'd then be there as just a fan of college hockey. Considering how few of those people there are even at or around the "elite" programs in the sport given the attendance figures I gave in my earlier post, just how is that small (relative to almost any other NCAA "major" sport) fan base going to have any meaningful impact on attendance? I submit that even if tickets were FREE it would not have a very meaningful impact.
I think the folks that wanted to go to these regionals/games are, by and large, there and that the numbers that are there are indicative of the small number of fans that exist for a lot of these schools and the current economic situation in this country as well. Most games have had attendance figures beyond that of most of the arenas in college hockey. I don't think it is reasonable, given the current state of the sport, to expect packed houses. How many Union and Ferris State fans are going to be in Tampa at the arena to watch their game between one another? Given that the two schools average, together, total less than 4,000 people per game, I'd be shocked if it were even as much as 2000. Don't even get me started on what I think of Tampa as Frozen 4 locale.
I'm going to have respectfully disagree with you.
I think the ticket costs are incidental compared to the overall cost of attending, unless you happen to be very close to a given regional you want to attend. And, by very close, I mean so close that transportation, food and lodging are not cost concerns because you don't have to spend any money on them.
I'll use myself as an example. Let's say UNO had made the tourney this season and was in the either the Bridgeport or Worcester regional. After what I am going to spend on plane tickets, lodging, food and transportation to either place, even at the ticket prices as they exist right now, the cost of the tickets themselves are a minor incidental compared to the overall cost of everything else associated with going. Unless tickets were a LOT more expensive than they are now, the cost of the tickets would never even enter into my thinking about whether I was going or not. The tickets are probably less than 10% of the overall cost of going in the first place.
Same thing is true if it just so happened that there was an Omaha regional (and believe me, Omaha has been and is trying to get one) and UNO was in it and I could sleep in my own bed. I'd be there no matter what the ticket cost (unless it involved arms and legs).
Now, if there were an Omaha regional and UNO was NOT in it, then ticket prices might play a role in whether I went or not. It would depend on the teams involved and the cost of those tickets. And, I'd then be there as just a fan of college hockey. Considering how few of those people there are even at or around the "elite" programs in the sport given the attendance figures I gave in my earlier post, just how is that small (relative to almost any other NCAA "major" sport) fan base going to have any meaningful impact on attendance? I submit that even if tickets were FREE it would not have a very meaningful impact.
I think the folks that wanted to go to these regionals/games are, by and large, there and that the numbers that are there are indicative of the small number of fans that exist for a lot of these schools and the current economic situation in this country as well. Most games have had attendance figures beyond that of most of the arenas in college hockey. I don't think it is reasonable, given the current state of the sport, to expect packed houses. How many Union and Ferris State fans are going to be in Tampa at the arena to watch their game between one another? Given that the two schools average, together, total less than 4,000 people per game, I'd be shocked if it were even as much as 2000. Don't even get me started on what I think of Tampa as Frozen 4 locale.
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
The point of the regional is to have a mix of teams from different conferences if they are just going to be a repeat of conference championships why even have regionals? Just have the two lowest ranked conference champions play in a one game playoff for the right to advance to the F4 with the other 3 conference champions.
I'm not convinced that between the short notice, the high ticket prices, and the possibility of having the host (home) team only play one game that attendance would be much better at on-campus rinks.
The point of the regional is to have a mix of teams from different conferences if they are just going to be a repeat of conference championships why even have regionals? Just have the two lowest ranked conference champions play in a one game playoff for the right to advance to the F4 with the other 3 conference champions.
I'm not convinced that between the short notice, the high ticket prices, and the possibility of having the host (home) team only play one game that attendance would be much better at on-campus rinks.
Hockeycrazy20
New member
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
I have no doubt they would have sold more tickets to the games at the X had they opened up the second level and tier the prices. Why limit yourself?? I sold my extra set (2 Tickets) for $550.
I have no doubt they would have sold more tickets to the games at the X had they opened up the second level and tier the prices. Why limit yourself?? I sold my extra set (2 Tickets) for $550.
WeAreNDHockey
\../ \../
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
By placing teams in the regions they are closest to. MSU, BU. Miami and Cornell for instance just this season. We don't adhere to a strict bracket integrity, so if we want more people to go, make the regions REGIONAL. You can still have a "1" seed play a "4" we just won't always have the overall "1" play the overall "16." My guess is by placing 3 or 4 or 5 more teams close enough for fans to reasonably drive would make people more likely to go. The distance to Manchester last year was the only reason I didn't got to Notre Dame's regional. Had it been in St Louis (and some thought it might) I would have gone without a doubt. But I, like most people, cannot afford a $700 plane ticket on 3 or 4 days notice.
By placing teams in the regions they are closest to. MSU, BU. Miami and Cornell for instance just this season. We don't adhere to a strict bracket integrity, so if we want more people to go, make the regions REGIONAL. You can still have a "1" seed play a "4" we just won't always have the overall "1" play the overall "16." My guess is by placing 3 or 4 or 5 more teams close enough for fans to reasonably drive would make people more likely to go. The distance to Manchester last year was the only reason I didn't got to Notre Dame's regional. Had it been in St Louis (and some thought it might) I would have gone without a doubt. But I, like most people, cannot afford a $700 plane ticket on 3 or 4 days notice.
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
Even if you end up being wrong about attendance (and I'm not saying you would be), going to campus sites falls under "cutting off nose to spite face" territory. I can see being concerned about attendance because you want to grow the sport. Going to campus sites is basically waving a white flag of surrendur, and admitting that your sport is so irrelevant to the public that you can only pay the bills by making the competition secondary.
A much easier way to grow the sport would be simply to get prices right.
Even if you end up being wrong about attendance (and I'm not saying you would be), going to campus sites falls under "cutting off nose to spite face" territory. I can see being concerned about attendance because you want to grow the sport. Going to campus sites is basically waving a white flag of surrendur, and admitting that your sport is so irrelevant to the public that you can only pay the bills by making the competition secondary.
A much easier way to grow the sport would be simply to get prices right.
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brassbonanza
Super Serial
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
I think that's the point that was being made there. For the local fans of the sport, the local youth leagues, and casual sports fans, the prices make it prohibitive, plus the lack of single day tickets. I'm not as sold on the beer selling and lack of ability to leave between games as being a big factor, I don't think that's more than a minor factor on overall attendance numbers. But definitely lower the prices, or at the very least tier them based on location/offer group rates for bulk purchases. Ironically, the one time they did this for the FFFF, with the $40 weekend books, it seemed to work well. $40 for a weekend ticket for a balcony seat or something would be a great idea.
The problem I see is that the regionals get put in these small cities that, for fans that must fly, the cost is entirely prohibitive because it's a fly and drive deal. Flying into Green Bay, or Grand Rapids, or Toledo is exorbitantly expensive, so you fly to the nearest major city, rent a car, then drive. All too expensive to do that. Are there good sized (~8-10K) rinks in places like Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit? At least there, you have large population bases, more sports fans, more youth leagues, and it's much more accessible for people coming from the east, and the far west. Example - BOS-Green Bay Fri-Sun is $715, BOS-Cleveland same time is $412. Chicago is $290. Eastern sites as they are now are as good as they'll get, Providence is a nice addition. Keep it in population centers, keep it out of these mill town podunk "cities". I would be against playing on home sites, the NCAA tournament should have at least somewhat of a modicum of neutrality. St Paul is fine, hell, if they put it at TD Garden (not going to happen) that'd be fine. But the on-campus thing just won't work for a million reasons. Two super eight team regionals would be worth looking at, though four games in one day would lead to some terrible ice by the end of the day, or two-two-two championships could work if the Friday winners and Saturday winners played each other on Sunday so no one would have a rest advantage. One western site, one eastern. Rotate XCel/Joe and TD/(Providence?).
Also, anyone heard anything else on potential '15 and '16 FF sites, other than the rumored Nashville bid? Hopefully Boston gets off its *** and puts in a legit bid.
I think that's the point that was being made there. For the local fans of the sport, the local youth leagues, and casual sports fans, the prices make it prohibitive, plus the lack of single day tickets. I'm not as sold on the beer selling and lack of ability to leave between games as being a big factor, I don't think that's more than a minor factor on overall attendance numbers. But definitely lower the prices, or at the very least tier them based on location/offer group rates for bulk purchases. Ironically, the one time they did this for the FFFF, with the $40 weekend books, it seemed to work well. $40 for a weekend ticket for a balcony seat or something would be a great idea.
The problem I see is that the regionals get put in these small cities that, for fans that must fly, the cost is entirely prohibitive because it's a fly and drive deal. Flying into Green Bay, or Grand Rapids, or Toledo is exorbitantly expensive, so you fly to the nearest major city, rent a car, then drive. All too expensive to do that. Are there good sized (~8-10K) rinks in places like Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit? At least there, you have large population bases, more sports fans, more youth leagues, and it's much more accessible for people coming from the east, and the far west. Example - BOS-Green Bay Fri-Sun is $715, BOS-Cleveland same time is $412. Chicago is $290. Eastern sites as they are now are as good as they'll get, Providence is a nice addition. Keep it in population centers, keep it out of these mill town podunk "cities". I would be against playing on home sites, the NCAA tournament should have at least somewhat of a modicum of neutrality. St Paul is fine, hell, if they put it at TD Garden (not going to happen) that'd be fine. But the on-campus thing just won't work for a million reasons. Two super eight team regionals would be worth looking at, though four games in one day would lead to some terrible ice by the end of the day, or two-two-two championships could work if the Friday winners and Saturday winners played each other on Sunday so no one would have a rest advantage. One western site, one eastern. Rotate XCel/Joe and TD/(Providence?).
Also, anyone heard anything else on potential '15 and '16 FF sites, other than the rumored Nashville bid? Hopefully Boston gets off its *** and puts in a legit bid.
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
Don't like that one bit. You don't sacrifice seeding and possibly screw over teams in which one part of the country is top heavy in a given season to try and limit flying. Heck in the one scenario you gave where is it played that reduces fly-time for all 4 fanbases? How do you plan this in advance and hope that you can minimize travel? If DU, CC, UND and UM all make the tournament, where is the game played that at least two groups of fans don't have to fly? What if DU and CC make it but no team from MN does and UW doesn't? It's even worse. Sorry, you can't reasonably take out the flight time often enough to matter, nor in justification of tossing banding completely out the window.
Don't like that one bit. You don't sacrifice seeding and possibly screw over teams in which one part of the country is top heavy in a given season to try and limit flying. Heck in the one scenario you gave where is it played that reduces fly-time for all 4 fanbases? How do you plan this in advance and hope that you can minimize travel? If DU, CC, UND and UM all make the tournament, where is the game played that at least two groups of fans don't have to fly? What if DU and CC make it but no team from MN does and UW doesn't? It's even worse. Sorry, you can't reasonably take out the flight time often enough to matter, nor in justification of tossing banding completely out the window.
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brassbonanza
Super Serial
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
Devalues the product too much. These are the most important games of the season, and prices should somewhat reflect that. Student discount and overall lower prices, I agree. I'd add in group ticket rates for groups of 20+. No free tickets, that'd be waiving the white flag again.
Devalues the product too much. These are the most important games of the season, and prices should somewhat reflect that. Student discount and overall lower prices, I agree. I'd add in group ticket rates for groups of 20+. No free tickets, that'd be waiving the white flag again.
IronRangeHockey
New member
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
Not sure what the attendance at the X was for the UND/UM game today but it looked like a sellout, or close.
Not sure what the attendance at the X was for the UND/UM game today but it looked like a sellout, or close.
HockeyMan2000
New member
Re: More proof that the Regional system is a disaster: Today's attendance at the X is
Curious how many (few) people are in Worcester but ESPNU is keeping the camera angles tight so as to not show anything outside the lower bowl.
Curious how many (few) people are in Worcester but ESPNU is keeping the camera angles tight so as to not show anything outside the lower bowl.