MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

[MaizeRage]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

You have to accept a certain amount of human error, even if the timing is awful.

Not to pick on you specifically, since I see a number of people say this, but why? There was the ability to get this call correct within a very short time frame. Why not take advantage of everything at their disposal to make sure fewer mistakes are made?

If we're talking tradition, at the turn of the 20th century, there was only one umpire that called games. But if it was too difficult for him to make every call so they innovated and got more umpires that could get a better view of certain areas. Why not innovate again and put in a fifth umpire in a spot that has a better view of close calls?

If baseball has a history of anything, it's a history of dragging their feet on innovations for no legitimate reason other than a bunch of old-timers whining about history. Interleague play, wildcard playoffs, night baseball, black people, etc.

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

The human element, in baseball at least, often has a massive ego and enjoys being the center of attention. F-ck the human element of the game.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

My only objection is that I wouldn't eject the manager. A ball (or strike, depending on who is in the field) added to the count, or a runner advances a base, fine. Let there be some penalty for being incorrect. But let's not kill a hornet's nest with a pound of dynamite here.

It's not a major penalty, but it's one that will make managers think twice about using their challenge as a time-wasting device.

 

[Hammer]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

I would say that an ejection is a major penalty.

 

[jen]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

Not to pick on you specifically, since I see a number of people say this, but why? There was the ability to get this call correct within a very short time frame. Why not take advantage of everything at their disposal to make sure fewer mistakes are made?

If we're talking tradition, at the turn of the 20th century, there was only one umpire that called games. But if it was too difficult for him to make every call so they innovated and got more umpires that could get a better view of certain areas. Why not innovate again and put in a fifth umpire in a spot that has a better view of close calls?

Is this fifth umpire not human? Because unless it's a robot, there's still room for human error once in awhile. You can reduce the potential for human error, but you can't eliminate it (realistically). If you want to argue for replay in that situation, that's a different argument too. Adding an umpire is a logical consideration, and very different than having the comissioner cherry pick calls to reverse after the fact.

I'm not against any kind of innovation - I'm against having the commissioner pick one call for one situation, and reversing it. It opens up a huge hornet's nest.

 

[Priceless]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

Galarraga brought out the lineup card for today's CLE/DET game. The home plate umpire: Jim Joyce.

 

[joecct]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

Jesus, talk about a circus that would be.

This is a simple, sad case of human frailty. There's no villain -- in fact, everyone involved seems to have acted in good faith and behaved well within the bounds of, to risk an elitist relic, gentlemanly conduct.

Maybe it could be taken as a lesson that sometimes, even with the best intentions, people make mistakes. As mistakes go -- well, hey, nobody died.

Yep

But I'm wondering why the official scorer did not charge somebody with an error on the play to keep the no hitter.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

It is really too bad that this didn't happen to the yankees. That would have been awesome.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

Here's something else to consider with instant replay: How do you deal with an overturned call?

Example: Original call is a foul ball... There is no way to fix this... The play dies as soon as the ball is called foul... Runners stop advancing... You would simply be guessing at where they would have ended up if the correct ruling was made... You also remove the possibility of the defense making a play on the batter-runner or other runners... There is no good way to make the call "right"...

Example 2: Runners 1st and 2nd, 1 out... Batter hits a sinking line drive to right field... You have a trap situation on the catch by the right fielder... Original call is no catch, so runners advance... Runner from 2nd scores, and runner on 1st ends up on 3rd with the Batter-runner on 1st... Replays show that there infact was a legit catch by the right fielder...

Where do you place the runners in the overturned situation? The runner on 2nd could have tried to tag up and advance to 3rd... The Defense has a good chance at getting a 2nd out if the runner goes... You can't just give him 3rd for free, but at the same time, you can't deny him the chance to legally advance... Again, no good way to make the play right...

This is a very slippery slope when talking about replay in baseball in regards to live ball plays... Most plays have several cause/effect scenarios based on different rulings, which in turn, give you a vastly different result... It's near impossible to give a ruling that doesn't screw over the offense or defense...

 

[Clifton]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

It is really too bad that this didn't happen to the yankees. That would have been awesome.

Or better yet, too bad this didn't happen in Philadelphia

 

[SteveF]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

I think having the commissioner reverse any call made by an umpire is an extremely slippery slope. You have to accept a certain amount of human error, even if the timing is awful. Theoretically, if you want the commissioner to be able to make that call, and if Joyce had called him out, but a bad call had gone the Tigers' way earlier in the game, could the Indians complain and have it reversed to take the perfect game away? If no, why not?

it is an extremely slippery slope. i would have no problem if selig reverses the call on the account of a) the umpire publically changing his mind and b) it was the last out of the game. though it would set a precedent, it wouldnt require anything to be replayed - it would only require future events to be wiped out.

 

[Hammer]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

It is really too bad that this didn't happen to the yankees. That would have been awesome.

Or better yet, too bad this didn't happen in Philadelphia

No. This shouldn't happen anywhere.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

No. This shouldn't happen anywhere.

There are only a few teams that I have no sympathy for, no matter how horrific the injury, attrocious the call or huge the body count. The Yankees are one of them. (for what its worth, the Red Wings and Michigan are the other 2)

 

[Kepler]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

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Thank you for that. One of the 2 or 3 greatest moments in Mariners history.

 

[Priceless]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

GM has given Galarraga a Corvette for last night's performance. Do they give him a 'Vette without the controversy?

Galarraga should at least give Joyce a ride in his new car.

 

[Hammer]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

Somewhere in there I suspect there is a check from Mr. Ilitch.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

Example: Original call is a foul ball... There is no way to fix this... The play dies as soon as the ball is called foul... Runners stop advancing... You would simply be guessing at where they would have ended up if the correct ruling was made... You also remove the possibility of the defense making a play on the batter-runner or other runners... There is no good way to make the call "right"...

Example 2: Runners 1st and 2nd, 1 out... Batter hits a sinking line drive to right field... You have a trap situation on the catch by the right fielder... Original call is no catch, so runners advance... Runner from 2nd scores, and runner on 1st ends up on 3rd with the Batter-runner on 1st... Replays show that there infact was a legit catch by the right fielder...

Where do you place the runners in the overturned situation? The runner on 2nd could have tried to tag up and advance to 3rd... The Defense has a good chance at getting a 2nd out if the runner goes... You can't just give him 3rd for free, but at the same time, you can't deny him the chance to legally advance... Again, no good way to make the play right...

This is a very slippery slope when talking about replay in baseball in regards to live ball plays... Most plays have several cause/effect scenarios based on different rulings, which in turn, give you a vastly different result... It's near impossible to give a ruling that doesn't screw over the offense or defense...

Example 1: Ground rule double

Example 2: Runners go back to first and second

Do they give him a 'Vette without the controversy?

No

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

Jim Joyce now can star in a commercial for Southwest Airlines.

Wanna get away?


(courtesy of The Common Man, from the worst all sports radio station in the country)

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

I would say that an ejection is a major penalty.

If it was, managers wouldn't intentionally get themselves ejected to get their team fired up.

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: MLB 2010: Hope Springs Eternal

Thank you for that. One of the 2 or 3 greatest moments in Mariners history.

With this being one of the other 2?:

Here's something else to consider with instant replay: How do you deal with an overturned call?

This is a very slippery slope when talking about replay in baseball in regards to live ball plays... Most plays have several cause/effect scenarios based on different rulings, which in turn, give you a vastly different result... It's near impossible to give a ruling that doesn't screw over the offense or defense...

You have a point, but there are situations like this in baseball already. Ground rule doubles/fan interference and player interference being two of the most obvious.

Ask any manager in the league about your example involving a trapped ball in the outfield that's overturned, and they'll tell you they'll take the out and let the runners stay where they are. It's preferable to the runners scoring.

No, you're never going to be able to put things the way they'd have been had the play been judged correctly live, but you can save the offense an out, or the defense a base runner.