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Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

Dirty said:
What I still love is how it was OK for Michigan Tech to do what they felt was best for them in the early 80's and leave the WCHA for the CCHA and then come back to the WCHA a couple years later, but 30 years later when UND and DU do what they think is best for them, it's completely different and those schools are backstabbing traitors.
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You keep trotting this out Dirty, but I don't believe even you are so dense as to not recognize the implications of MTU's move to the CCHA were vastly different than that of the formation of the NCHC.

Before you play dumb, I'll spell it out. Tech moving to the CCHA had very little (if any) impact on the overall solvency and stability of the WCHA and its member schools.

If you want to argue that it's not UND's, or Denver's, or anyone else's responsibility to consider how their actions impact the overall landscape, you can certainly do so. But you can't say Tech moving between the CCHA and WCHA is in any way similar to what happened with the NCHC.
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

jdmaxim23 said:
This has already happened at WMU when Murray left, will happen at UNO when Dean Blais leaves, will happen at SCSU, MSU-M, etc soon too. All programs go thru cycles. When NCHC formed they plucked teams at the top of their cycles and the last few years have been great for them, but it will come back around and all the chest pounded will be replaced with continued dwindling attendance and increased travel cost for 75% of the league.
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I bet Andy Murray is going to be surprised to learn he left WMU.
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

St. Clown said:
...it's been a lot of fun hockey since then playing against top competition for points and not the likes of UAH, UAA or UA_.
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Ummm, yeah well "top competition" must have a slightly different definition in the NCHC. Because your NCHC conference games got you "top competition" like...
- Four vs UMD (one game over 0.500)
- Four vs Miami (well under 0.500)
- Four vs WMU (25 loss season)
- Four vs CC (one loss shy of 30)
- Plus to bolster your strength of schedule you booked some more "tough" non-conference games against ASU (twice), Alberta, the two Alaska programs and US under 18...

Well clearly my mistake now that I have reviewed your schedule. Let me be the first to get the slow clap started for you guys taking on all that "top competition"... Way to go.

In an ideal world this post would end with an image of Gene Wilder in a purple coat and top hat asking for you to tell us more about the NCHC's "top competition" but I think we've seen enough here already to get the point of just how "tough" it is. To be fair, I'll give credit to SCSU that you took an average WCHA team to the woodshed when it counted in the NCAA tourney and SCSU beat Ferris.

"Wait a minute. Strike that. Reverse it. Thank you." ~W.W.
Oh whoops, I misread that last result. You actually lost to Ferris.
:rolleyes:
Ryan J
 
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Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

Yeah, that barely 0.500 UMD team you're trying to disparage actually made it into the NCAA tournament on their strength of schedule playing in the NCHC. Not only did they make it into the tournament, they won a game and lost to BC 3-2. All of this was in the Northeast Regional. But yeah, you're right, that doesn't speak to the NCHC's strength at all.

And yes, SCSU played a bad game - Lindgren fighting the puck all game and the D looking like they were auditioning for the ice follies - in addition to Ferris playing a good game. Then DU smacked around Ferris, like SCSU should've done in round one had they not pranced away the first period.
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

St. Clown said:
Yeah, that barely 0.500 UMD team you're trying to disparage actually made it into the NCAA tournament on their strength of schedule playing in the NCHC... that doesn't speak to the NCHC's strength at all.
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What it does show is just how flawed the current NCAA tourney selection formula happens to be. SCSU 2015 would be another good one to consider.

And I'll just go ahead and prequote what you'll post in reply:
"Yeah, but but but.... both of those teams won tourney games..." (and one of them beat Michigan Tech *gasp*)."

True. Well, the US beat the Soviets once back in 1980. Holy Cross and Niagara have won an NCAA tourney game too. That doesn't mean they were one of the 16 best teams that season and deserved to be in the tourney. They got in via auto-bids and then got some puck luck when it counted. UMD and SCSU got in via a computer chewing up numbers in a flawed math equation and spitting out a tourney field of 16 teams. I'm sorry, but if you can barely win half of your games, regardless of who you played, you have no business playing for a national title.

If the NCHC was heads and tails better than any other conference, NCHC teams would go undefeated in non-conference and win every tourney game they played. As much as NCHC fans would like to think they play some sort of "just below the NHL" level of hockey, there isn't that kind of competitive gap in college hockey. You only need to look at the national champions from the last few years to confirm that theory.

Ryan J
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

St. Clown said:
And yes, SCSU played a bad game - Lindgren fighting the puck all game and the D looking like they were auditioning for the ice follies - in addition to Ferris playing a good game. Then DU smacked around Ferris, like SCSU should've done in round one had they not pranced away the first period.
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You mean the game that it took DU till the end of the 3rd to open it up?
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

JohnsonsJerseys said:
What it does show is just how flawed the current NCAA tourney selection formula happens to be. SCSU 2015 would be another good one to consider.

And I'll just go ahead and prequote what you'll post in reply:
"Yeah, but but but.... both of those teams won tourney games..." (and one of them beat Michigan Tech *gasp*)."

True. Well, the US beat the Soviets once back in 1980. Holy Cross and Niagara have won an NCAA tourney game too. That doesn't mean they were one of the 16 best teams that season and deserved to be in the tourney. They got in via auto-bids and then got some puck luck when it counted. UMD and SCSU got in via a computer chewing up numbers in a flawed math equation and spitting out a tourney field of 16 teams. I'm sorry, but if you can barely win half of your games, regardless of who you played, you have no business playing for a national title.

If the NCHC was heads and tails better than any other conference, NCHC teams would go undefeated in non-conference and win every tourney game they played. As much as NCHC fans would like to think they play some sort of "just below the NHL" level of hockey, there isn't that kind of competitive gap in college hockey. You only need to look at the national champions from the last few years to confirm that theory.

Ryan J
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17-50-9. That's the record of WCHA teams against NCHC teams in the past three regular seasons.
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

giwan said:
You mean the game that it took DU till the end of the 3rd to open it up?
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It's a 60-minute game. Play them all. Don't play them, you get smacked around, and maybe you'll lose 6-3, like FSU lost to DU.
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

aparch said:
Kinda curious, what's the Home/Away breakdown of that stat?
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After 76 games the WCHA has 17 wins against the Nacho. Does the H/A breakdown really matter that much at that point? If the split were more like 40-60, that'd be one thing. This is something else entirely.
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

aparch said:
Kinda curious, what's the Home/Away breakdown of that stat?
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The NCHC has played 33 games at home against WCHA teams. They are 23-6-4
The NCHC has played 28 games on the road against WCHA teams. They are 15-8-5
The NCHC has played 15 neutral site games against WCHA teams, including NCAA tournament games. They are 12-3
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

Those stats really do tell the tale, don't they? If you eliminate all the wins NCHC teams got by cheating and playing at home or at neutral sites they aren't so great, are they? Heck they aren't even .500!
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

The nice thing for the WCHA is that Minnesota State is 2-9 vs. the NCHC, so the WCHA's record against the NCHC will actually improve if the Mavericks jump ship. :p
 
Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

So once you take out Wisconsin & Minnesota, then add Mankato, this is the WCHC minus Tech, Bemidji and UAA plus Miami and Western. Is there really a net gain of some sort? Was it really worth all the disruption it caused college hockey? Was it really worth blowing up two pretty good postseason tourneys? Granted, the CCHA even would have been hurt badly by losing Michigan and Michigan State, but the WCHA would have continued to have a very strong event, better than what's out there now.
 
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Re: Minnesota State Applies to the NCHC

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that no matter how you sliced it in the post-BTHC world, 8-10 schools were going to be sort of okay in one conference with the rest struggling in another conference. The only thing that's changed is the makeup of the two groups.
 
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