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Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

trixR4kids said:
Ok? There wasn't even a hook on that play. And what about every non-hooking stick infraction that wasn't called?
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Wait a minute...you said this > "If they'd been calling that consistently all game then sure, call it in OT. You'd still have people who are angry obviously because of biases but at least the call would be justifiable." All four calls were hooking calls, so according to your statement, the OT call is "justified". Correct? Or do you want to retract that? :D
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

SteveO said:
That's not what the evidence seems to indicate. Sheehy did not hit Theisen's stick on the stick lift. Granted the incident happened at full speed, but the video evidence in slow motion from a side view camera shows he made contact with Theisen's glove and pulled his stick back. That's a judgment call, but it's technically hooking. He also made contact at the same time with Thiesen's skate impeding his progress to the puck and that's technically interference. The combination of those two caused Theisen to lose his balance and pursuit of the puck. Sheehy then gained possession of the puck and then came the whistle.
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Nope. Theisen actively moves to his left and runs into Sheehy. so, technically he is more guilty of diving than Sheehy is of hooking.

Do you think it would have been called if the ref was in position to see the whole play?
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

Happy said:
Nope. Theisen actively moves to his left and runs into Sheehy. so, technically he is more guilty of diving than Sheehy is of hooking.

Do you think it would have been called if the ref was in position to see the whole play?
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Not true. Sheehy was always the aggressor on that play. Theisen was always in pursuit of the puck. Both the rear and side video cams in slow motion show it clearly. The ref was about 10-12 feet from the incident. He had the best sight line.
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

SteveO said:
Not true. Sheehy was always the aggressor on that play. Theisen was always in pursuit of the puck. Both the rear and side video cams in slow motion show it clearly. The ref was about 10-12 feet from the incident. He had the best sight line.
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the puck is coming from the Gopher defenseman to Sheehy, and ND never touches it. Theisen runs into Sheehy.
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

Happy said:
the puck is coming from the Gopher defenseman to Sheehy, and ND never touches it. Theisen runs into Sheehy.
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Theisen is in pursuit of the puck. As Theisen takes a stride, Sheehy moves in to attempt a stick lift but misses and hits Theisen's glove (technically hooking) and moves close enough in the process to make contact with Theisen's skate. That is impeding a player's pursuit of the puck or interference. A player cannot make contact with another player and impede his movement towards a puck.
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

SteveO said:
Wait a minute...you said this > "If they'd been calling that consistently all game then sure, call it in OT. You'd still have people who are angry obviously because of biases but at least the call would be justifiable." All four calls were hooking calls, so according to your statement, the OT call is "justified". Correct? Or do you want to retract that? :D
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I was talking about all stick infractions, not hooks specifically, and that's not even getting into the other subjective penalties that they don't call nearly enough (interference and holding). Johnny Gaudreau took like 21 slashes in a game vs the Wild once and you're gonna tell me that call in OT of a playoff game was a good call? There's a reason you're on an island on this one.
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

trixR4kids said:
I was talking about all stick infractions, not hooks specifically, and that's not even getting into the other subjective penalties that they don't call nearly enough (interference and holding). Johnny Gaudreau took like 21 slashes in a game vs the Wild once and you're gonna tell me that call in OT of a playoff game was a good call? There's a reason you're on an island on this one.
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Hooking is a stick infraction and it was the only type of penalty called in the game. You said >

It's a bad call because the refs don't call that same infraction the 10+ times a game it happens and if you're going to call it that closely you need to be calling all of them for consistency purposes. If they'd been calling that consistently all game then sure, call it in OT. You'd still have people who are angry obviously because of biases but at least the call would be justifiable. When you just pick and choose when to call it and it just happens to go to the home team in OT that's just garbage reffing.
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Seems to me you're talking about "that call" which was called 4X. I think it's a good debate, minus the childish personal attacks. I'm enjoying it. :D
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

There was no childish personal attack, you are on an island on this one, that's just a factual statement ;).

Seems to me you're talking about "that call" which was called 4X.
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Uhhhhh no, this is getting really pedantic. "That" referred to any subjective stick related infraction such as hooks or slashes, which I think would've been closer to the truth than the "hook" that was called. More broadly though I think refs miss a ton of other subjective penalties that aren't necessarily stick related such as interference and holding. That's the bigger issue here, refs ignoring a ton of penalties and then giving a homer call like that in OT when more egregious stuff was happening all season going uncalled.
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

trixR4kids said:
There was no childish personal attack, you are on an island on this one, that's just a factual statement ;).

Uhhhhh no, this is getting really pedantic. "That" referred to any subjective stick related infraction such as hooks or slashes, which I think would've been closer to the truth than the "hook" that was called. More broadly though I think refs miss a ton of other subjective penalties that aren't necessarily stick related such as interference and holding. That's the bigger issue here, refs ignoring a ton of penalties and then giving a homer call like that in OT when more egregious stuff was happening all season going uncalled.
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It's a bad call because the refs don't call that same infraction the 10+ times a game it happens and if you're going to call it that closely you need to be calling all of them for consistency purposes. If they'd been calling that consistently all game then sure, call it in OT. You'd still have people who are angry obviously because of biases but at least the call would be justifiable. When you just pick and choose when to call it and it just happens to go to the home team in OT that's just garbage reffing.
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So you're denying that what you are talking about in bold above is NOT referring to the hooking call in OT? :confused:

No that's not factual. Take a look around there's some childish personal attacks.
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

Note to self: check thread in ten days and hope this is over.
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

Uh oh, somebody's off his meds again!
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

SteveO said:
Theisen is in pursuit of the puck. As Theisen takes a stride, Sheehy moves in to attempt a stick lift but misses and hits Theisen's glove (technically hooking) and moves close enough in the process to make contact with Theisen's skate. That is impeding a player's pursuit of the puck or interference. A player cannot make contact with another player and impede his movement towards a puck.
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Sheehy moves are much more straight forward than Theisen. In fact, Theisen actively moves his skate to the left to make contact.
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

SteveO said:
So you're denying that what you are talking about in bold above is NOT referring to the hooking call in OT? :confused:
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Dude it's not that hard to understand, they miss a ton of subjective calls every game many of which are stick infractions, and then they called that in OT. That's the issue, consistency, or lack thereof. That's why it's a crap call even if he barely made contact with Theisen's hands and it could technically qualify as a penalty.
 
Re: Minnesota Golden Gopher Season 2018-2019: Fire Motzko

trixR4kids said:
Dude it's not that hard to understand, they choose to let a ton of subjective calls go uncalled every game many of which are stick infractions, and then they called that in OT. That's the issue, consistency, or lack thereof. That's why it's a crap call even if he barely made contact with Theisen's hands and it could technically qualify as a penalty.
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fyp

Other than offsides, if a goal crosses the line, playing the puck too high and hand passes, most things are judgement calls based on a the continuum from a clear infraction to no infraction. Checking from behind, boarding, tripping, holding, hooking, elbowing, even hit to the head and especially interference are judged on severity and impact (and maybe intent) to determine if they are a penalty. I would bet you could argue for 20 interference calls per game if you went with the strictest interpretation. Maybe more, if you consider about every faceoff has multiple cases of this. Even icing is usually subjective as most linesmen allow a slight fudge factor. Very few calls are based on the strictest interpretation of a rule.

(Sorry to prolong the discussion, but 1. crappy day at work so had to respond and 2. Not much else to do Gopher Hockey-wise but sit and wait to see if Rem leaves, or makes the right decision for the well-being of all of us and announces his return. Then just wait through another longer than it should be offseason hoping they bring in a goalie who surprises us all.)
 
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